Interview with Edmund Ted Robert Moyes

Edmund Ted Robert Moyes was interviewed by Randall J. Bunn on October 10, 2018 in St. George, Washington County, Utah. He related his military experiences as a dentist in the United States Navy. Brady Fronk also participated.

RB:I would like to learn a little bit about your childhood. What do you recall from your childhood? You said that you were born in Ogden [Weber County] Utah.

EM: I played a lot of baseball and basketball.

RB:Where did you play baseball?

EM:[I played] at Ogden High School.

RB:What position [did you play in baseball]?

EM:[I played] centerfield.

RB:Did you have some good teams?

EM:[It was] not a bad team. We had a team that played the Harlem Globetrotters 00:01:00[Baseball] team.

RB:Is that right? You said you played some basketball, too.

EM:[I played] basketball for Ogden High School and for Weber [College, now Weber State University, Ogden, Weber County, Utah].

RB:You were quite an athlete then. [Laughter]

EM:Quite!

RB:[When you were] growing up in Ogden, what did you father do for a living?

EM:He was a dentist.

RB: So you followed in his footsteps.

EM:My brother was a dentist.

RB:Your father's name is William [Stewart Moyes]. His sons, James and Ted, both became dentist.

EM:My brother's two sons became dentists.

RB:That keeps it in the family.

EM:We had two or three [pairs of] brothers who [attended Northwestern University 00:02:00Dental School].

RB:Really? [Did] you spend your time at Northwestern [University, Evanston, Illinois] with your brother?

EM:My brother went before me. He was older than me. As he finished [there], I started [school there].

RB:You were born in 1934. When was your brother born?

EM:He was born in, I don't know. [He was born June 28, 1931 and died August 19, 2006.]

RB:Is he two years older [than you]?

EM:I think he is three years older [than me].

RB:Maybe [he was born] in 1931? Is your sister older or younger than you?

EM:She is younger. She is the oldest [child and] is six years older than I am.

RB:You were born in Ogden [and] spent all your time growing up in Ogden. [You] went to high school in Ogden. You graduated in 1958. Then what did you do?

EM:I went to [University of] Utah [Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah] for a year. Then [I] went to Weber [College, Ogden, Weber County, Utah] for a year. Then [I] went to Northwestern [University] for four years.

RB:[You] went straight through six years and then [received] your degree in dentistry. Did you have to get some sort of license?

EM:We took a test down at the Utah State Prison [Draper, Salt Lake County, Utah]. That is where we [received] our dental license.

RB:When you took the test was part of it practical?

EM:[It was] very practical.

RB:That is what I recall hearing [from others].

EM:I had a cell that they put me in and a can to spit in. They would have you 00:04:00drill very slowly and you would have dust coming out of the hole.

RB:[Laughter] Did you work on a patient?

EM:[I worked] on a patient, one of the inmates.

RB:[Did] you have someone observing your work?

EM:They had three to six people [who] were dentists [observing].

RB:[Were they] watching how you did your work?

EM:Yes.

RB:How did you do?

EM:I passed. [Laughter]

RB:Was Northwestern [University] a pretty good dental school?

EM:It was, it is closed down now.

RB:I didn't know that.

EM:It was one of the best.

RB:Good for you. Where did your dad go to dental [school]?

EM:[He went to] Northwestern [University].

RB:Your father, you and your brother were there.

EM:[We were] at Northwestern [University].

RB:That makes sense.

EM:My brother was a dentist. His son is a dentist now.

RB: Did he go to Northwestern [University]?

EM:Yes.

RB:I cannot believe it! When I was looking at your military history, it says on the plaque that you went to Camp Pendleton [San Diego, California] in 1958. Were you part of ROTC [Reserve Officer Training Corps] at the [University of Utah]?

EM: They put me in as a lieutenant in the [United States] Navy. I spent two years there. [When I was discharged I] went into practice.

RB:I am trying to understand how this works. You went to the University of Utah for a year. Was that the same time you were in the Navy? How did that work?

EM:I graduated from dental school in 1958.

RB:What I thought you said was you graduated from Ogden High School in 1958. So if you were born in 1934, you would have graduated in 1952. That makes sense.

EM:I graduated from dental school in 1958.

RB:That makes sense now. You graduated from dental school. [You received] your license from Utah and you decided to go into the Navy?

EM:I was in what they called the ensign program.

RB:[You were in] the ensign program.

EM:I signed up before I graduated. You were guaranteed to go into the Navy right after dental school.

RB:[You went in] after you received your license. You were an ensign and approved.

EM:Yes.

RB:After you received the approval from the state, you went down to Camp Pendleton.

EM:[I went] down to Camp Pendleton.

RB:How did that work? In the ensign program, did you have any military training prior to [entering the Navy]?

EM:They sent us to summer duties. We had to go out and march.

RB:[You had to go out and] march, salute and learn how to do all that good [training].

EM:And learn how to do all those military [tasks].

RB:Then you went back to dental school. When you came out [of dental school], you were commissioned as a first lieutenant.

EM:I came in as an ensign that is a second lieutenant. Within one month, I was promoted to lieutenant JG [junior grade], which is O-2 [officer grade two]. A 00:08:00month later, I was promoted to O-3.

RB:[You were] promoted to O-3, as a lieutenant.

EM:Yes.

RB:This is how it worked in the [United States] Air Force. As a JAG, [Judge Advocate General, military attorney] I graduated from law school. I did it not as a program, but as a direct appointment. They brought us in as an-. So I was a first lieutenant in the Air Force for six months. Then it was 100% promotion to O-3. I was an Air Force captain that is how it works. Then you have to stay in that rank for quite awhile. How long were you at Camp Pendleton?

EM:[I was] there two years.

RB:What was your life like there in San Diego [California] at Camp Pendleton? Camp Pendleton is north of San Diego.

EM:[It was] very nice. We had a government house that we lived in. They provided 00:09:00all repairs as needed. It was comfortable living.

RB:You [were] married in 1955. Did you have any children before you [went] to San Diego?

EM:Yes, we had one [child], Melinda [Moyes].

RB:She lives in San Diego now. Where was Melinda born?

EM:She was born in ─

RB:[Was she] born in Chicago [Illinois]?

EM:─ Chicago in Wesley Memorial Hospital.

RB:What was the name of the hospital?

EM:Wesley Memorial [Hospital].

RB:Tell about what it was like being a dentist in the Navy.

EM:They treated you with respect. They take care of you.

RB:What did they do?

EM:Aboard ship the stewards would always feed me chocolate ice cream.

RB:[Laughter]

EM:Then the others got vanilla [ice cream].

RB: [Laughter]

EM:I could do favors from these dentists for the service. [I could] also be favorable.

RB:You lived at Camp Pendleton. Was your dental office there at Camp Pendleton?

EM:Yes.

RB:Did you ever have to go out on cruises?

EM:Not at first.

RB:You were two years at Camp Pendleton.

EM:Then I went into private practice in Ogden for four years.

RB:When you were in the ensign program, you only had to do two years of active 00:11:00duty service?

EM:I was guaranteed to go right into the Navy right after dental school. That was the guarantee.

RB:How long was your commitment? Two years?

EM:Yes.

RB:That was a pretty good deal.

EM:[It was] not bad.

RB:Did they pay for any of your dental school?

EM:No, I paid for everything.

RB:So the program was that you got a job in the Navy.

EM:[I got a job] right out of dental school.

RB:They did not pay for anything, so you did not owe anything back [to them].

EM:No.

RB:That was good. Why did you decide to go into private practice after that [time] and not stay in the Navy?

EM:My dad built a dental clinic in Ogden.

RB:He probably needed some help.

EM:He practiced there. My brother [James Kirk Moyes, 1931-2006] practiced there, and then I came in [and practiced there].

RB:How many years did you practice there?

EM:[I was there] four years.

RB:You moved back to Ogden. Did you have your other children there?

EM:We had two of them [there]. [There was] Michelle and Bertha Mindy [Moyes].

RB:So there were three of them growing up. Did your wife [Melvina (Farr) Moyes] work?

EM:[She worked] at home.

RB:That is a lot of work! [Laughter] She helped raise your family and you worked at the dental office with your dad. Did your brother work there, too?

EM:Yes.

RB:Was it any kind of special practice or was it just general dentistry?

EM:[It was] general dentistry.

RB:What was the name of the practice?

EM:[It was called] Moyes Dental Clinic.

RB:What prompted you to go back into the Navy?

EM:I was not making any money.

RB:No?

EM:I would go on two weeks' training duty every year and I just loved it. I did not want to leave. The second year passed and the third year passed. Fortunately, we got a letter from the Navy saying that they were looking for dentists. I said, "Now is the time." We joined up and [I] was promoted to lieutenant commander.

RB:So lieutenant commander would have been O-4?

EM:[It was] major.

RB:[That was] major in the Air Force?

EM:Yes.

RB:Let me get this right. You graduated from dental school in 1958. Two [more] years took you to 1960. [You were] four years back in Ogden. So in 1964 you would have gone back into the Navy?

EM:Yes.

RB:[You went back] as an O-4.

EM:[That was] lieutenant commander.

RB:As a lieutenant commander, as a dentist, did you still do the same work as a dentist except at a higher rank?

EM:I did the same thing.

RB:Where did you go when you went back in?

EM:[I went] aboard ship. [I was on the USS] Valley Forge for two years. [It was an Essex-class aircraft carrier built during World War II.] That is where I picked up Agent Orange.

RB:This would have been in 1964. Vietnam was just getting going [at that time] under [President Lyndon Baines] Johnson.

EM:Yes.

RB:The ship went over there. You said you picked up Agent Orange. Tell about that.

EM:We were an amphibious assault ship. So we would fly [United States] Marines ashore. [They would] fight and then come back [to the ship]. They would bring 00:15:00Agent Orange all over the common area. [It was on] their uniforms.

RB:What I recall about Agent Orange is that the active chemical is dioxin.

EM:I do not know. It could be.

RB:That is very, very deadly. That is why they used that chemical. Do you think it was transferred to you because it was on their uniforms? You were working on patients and [they could have had Agent Orange on their uniforms].

EM:Yes, by association.

RB:At the time, did you experience any illness or anything?

EM:No.

RB:It was something that was probably long standing and develops over time.

EM:Yes.

RB:It gets in your system.

EM:Yes.

RB:Was the Valley Forge over in the Vietnam area? Where did it port?

EM:Mostly in the Da Nang harbor.

BF:So I assume you were on Yankee Station or near?

EM:You have me. Yankee Station?

BF:Yes. Yankee Station was where most of the United States Navy carriers were stationed outside of South Vietnam.

RB:Was the ship pretty much stationed there for the two year period?

EM:We moved around quite a bit.

RB:You were still in Southeast Asia?

EM:Yes. We did make a trip up to Hong Kong [China]. That was fun.

RB:Did you ever go ashore when you were in Vietnam?

EM:I went ashore once and touched it with my foot.

BF:[Laughter]

RB:That was enough for you.

EM:And then I came back.

RB:[Laughter] Was it an amphibious assault?

EM:It was an amphibious assault ship. It was also a casualty receiving station. We had a full surgical team. We would lower them down through the torpedo hatch into some big rooms. We had a couple big rooms [set up as] a hospital.

RB:Did you work on patients [who] had been severely injured?

EM:Yes.

RB:What was that like?

EM:For a dentist to do surgical work is [very] interesting.

RB:So you were doing non-dental work?

EM:Yes.

RB:Like what?

EM:I will tell you one story. There was one Marine [who] came in with a gunshot wound that went in here [gesturing to his right cheek] and [we thought] came out here [gesturing to his left cheek]. When he came aboard, the surgeon came said 00:18:00to me, "You're going to work from here up [gesturing to neck up]. And I am going to work from here down [gesturing to neck down]."

RB:Wow!

EM:That is what we did. I got the patient and cleaned him up, sutured him up, trimmed him up and he looked pretty good.

RB:Was there a bullet in his mouth?

EM:I will tell you the rest of the story. The patient came into to see me in sick call the next morning. He said, "Doc, I cannot open my mouth." So I took an x-ray of him. There was a bullet that had gone in here and went underneath the skin. [It had] lodged here. It was right in front of the coronary process of the 00:19:00[inaudible]. It goes [this way]. [Gesturing how bullet went into the mouth and how it logged in the [inaudible.] The bullet was sitting there so when he opened his mouth, the bullet was there. He could not open his mouth. I took the bullet out and fixed him up. He was alright.

RB:That is incredible! You don't see that in private practice in Ogden!

EM:No, not too often!

BF:[Laughter]

EM:I had a lot of patients. We did a lot of work.

RB:Was that satisfying work for you?

EM:Yes, it was. It was something that dentists would never get to do [in private practice].

BF:Did you ever have to do any reconstructive surgery for those missing teeth from combat injuries?

EM:We did not have a prosthetic capability. We did not do too much prosthesis.

RB:They would go back to the United States and get additional dental restorative work if they needed it? You were mainly to try to stabilize and fix their injuries.

EM:And then ship them out. We were a helicopter carrier. We shipped the casualties out to Subic Bay.

RB:[You sent them to] the Philippines.

EM:Clark Air Force Base [in the Philippines].

RB:When you travelled from San Diego [California] on the USS Valley Forge to Southeast Asia, you went across the International Dateline.

EM:We did not have to do that [ceremony]?

RB:You did not have to do the ceremony? I was going to ask about that [ceremony] because when my father went to the Philippines in 1945 they did that [ceremony].

They had this special ceremony across the International Dateline.

EM:We did not do that [ceremony]. We did not cross the dateline.

RB:What else do you remember about your time in Vietnam?

EM:We had a lot of casualties. I have pictures of all those casualties.

RB:Did you learn a lot about doing that kind of work?

EM:Yes. We had an anesthesiologist on board as part of the surgical team. He taught me how to do [the procedure of putting in a pipe over the throat]. I [was] learning all of it. I learned that from him. I worked with an orthopedic surgeon quite a bit. We had days that we had to do amputations. So I got into a 00:22:00lot of that [work].

RB:Were you kind of an assistant to the surgeon.

EM:Yes.

RB:You would see him operate. That is something you would not see in a dental

office.

EM:[Not] too often.

BF:Did you ever get attacked? Were there any other ships in the group getting attacked?

EM:No, we did not have any problems. I was on a hospital ship that had been in for repairs. They had just come back on station. We were transferring some wounded and walking wounded over to them. I was on that ship. I am on film somewhere with all the cameras going [gesturing like cameraman shooting a movie].

RB:[Laughter] Did you have a pretty good commanding officer on that tour?

EM:[I had] one of the very fine ones. Good men.

BF:Did you get payment that was recognized for a lieutenant commander's work 00:23:00even though you were doing the exact same [thing] as a dentist?

EM:I do not know if I understand that [question].

BF:Did your pay reflect your rank even though you just did ─.

EM:Yes. Every time you make rank, you get increased pay.

RB:Right. It did not matter what you did [as work], you would get the pay as the grade you [were].

EM:The grade as ─.

RB:After you finished that tour in Vietnam, did they give you any medals?

EM:Yes, [you can] see my ribbons up there.

RB:What did you earn? [Is that] a campaign medal?

EM:That one back there is the Department of Defense Meritorious Service Medal. 00:24:00That is the highest one I received.

RB:Excellent. Where did you go after USS Valley Forge?

EM:I went back to Bethesda, Maryland [to] post-graduate school for dentists.

RB:Really?

EM:I had a year in post-graduate school where you learn all the basics all over again.

RB:Was it like going back to dental school?

EM:It was. You take anatomy, chemistry and biology. That lasted one year [and] I received a residency in oral medicine the next year. Then I [was] on the staff of the dental school.

RB:At Bethesda?

EM:Yes, that was the third year.

RB:That was in oral surgery?

EM:[It was in] oral medicine. I would coordinate all the medical problems, like 00:25:00heart problems, hepatitis and [other illnesses] like that with dental treatment. [That was] so we did not interact with [the problems].

RB:You were not an oral surgeon, but in oral medicine?

EM:Yes, [I was] in the oral medicine department.

RB:You were part of the medical staff. How [did] that [work]? Was that interesting?

EM:[It was] very interesting. We had a lot of interesting patients. The most interesting patient that I worked on was the queen of Afghanistan. [Presumably Queen Soraya Tarzi, 1899 -- 1968, the wife of King Amanullah Khan.]

RB:Really? Why was she sent to Bethesda?

EM:She had a wrist injury and they were doing some surgery on her.

RB:As part of the United States Government's support of Afghanistan, was she allowed to come there?

EM:She was invited to come. I am sure they asked if she could be invited.

RB:Of course. She was a VIP [very important person] and they allowed her to come. What did you do for her?

EM:I did a big filling on her.

RB:[Laughter] Did she need some dental work?

EM:I thought she ought to go in and kill the castle dentist.

BF:[Laughter]

RB:He did a lousy job?

EM:You bet, he did a lousy job.

BF:Was it gold?

EM:It was silver.

BF:Not too gaudy! [Laughter]

RB:How long were you on the medical staff at Bethesda?

EM:I had one year of post-graduate and one year of residency. Then I had one year on the staff.

RB:[You were there] three years.

EM:[I was there] three years.

RB:Where did you live?

EM:[We lived in] Bowie, Maryland. I was stationed at Andrews Air Force Base. The 00:27:00Navy had a two-man dental clinic for their Navy personnel. I worked there for two years. That is when I got out and went to Bethesda.

RB:You came back from Vietnam to Andrews [Air Force Base]. You were there two years?

EM:No, I was only there for about six months, then I went to post-graduate school.

RB:[Then you went to] post-graduate, residency and on the staff. Then did you go back to Andrews [Air Force Base]?

EM:No. [I went to] Hawaii.

RB:[Was that at] Pearl Harbor?

EM:[I went to] Pearl Harbor.

RB:Did you like living in the Washington, D.C. area?

EM:We enjoyed it quite a bit. There is a lot to see.

RB:[There is] lots to see and do. It is a pretty exciting city. If I get this 00:28:00right, you were in Vietnam from 1964 to 1966. Then [you were] in the [Washington], D.C. area from 1966 to 1969. [After that time], you went to Pearl Harbor. Does that sound about right?

EM:[I was there] four years.

RB:[You were] four years at Pearl Harbor. That would have been 1969 to 1973. So what was our assignment at Pearl Harbor?

EM:[I worked] in the oral diagnosis department.

RB:At that point, were you ─

EM:I was O-5 [officer grade five].

RB:─ a commander by then?

EM:Yes, I was O-5, a commander then.

RB:You were the head of that department. What did the head of that department do?

EM:We placed all the patients. I did all the exams and decided what they needed. Then I farmed them out to various specialty [offices].

RB:The specialties would be periodontal, endodontic, general dentistry and if 00:29:00they needed crowns.

EM:Oral surgery and prosthetics.

RB:You were there four years?

EM:[I was there] four years.

RB:Did you like living on Oahu, Hawaii?

EM:I loved it! I did not like the traffic.

RB:There is a lot [of traffic] there. Did you live on the naval station or on ─.

EM:We lived in Pearl City [Hawaii] in Navy housing.

RB:By this point, your three girls are still at home? Or had they grown up?

EM:Two of them [were at home]. The third one was born in Hawaii.

RB:Who was born in Hawaii?

EM:That was Mareesa [Moyes].

RB:Were the other two [children] back in the states?

EM:They went to school in Hawaii.

RB:You [belonged to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]. Did you 00:30:00ever go out where the temple [is located]? Or where the Polynesian Cultural Center [is located]?

[The Polynesian Cultural Center, owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was constructed in 1962 to showcase the Pacific Island people who demonstrate arts and crafts and perform traditional songs and dances.

─ Added by Randall J. Bunn during editing.]

EM:We went out there quite a bit. I had a good friend who was the head of it. He taught at Brigham Young University [Provo, Utah County, Utah]. They sent him over there to straighten them out! I could get tickets.

RB:[Laughter] You [received] tickets to see that [area]? That is neat!

BF:Did you go out to the [USS Arizona] Memorial at Pearl Harbor [Hawaii]?

EM:Every time we had company, we would go out to the Memorial.

BF:Did they treat you special because you were active duty [with] all those survivors out there?

EM:It was very emotional.

BF:I can imagine.

EM:I was there for the christening of the USS Utah. They have a memorial out 00:31:00there. I was in that [place].

[The USS Utah was the second and final member of the Florida class of dreadnaught battleships. It was finished in 1911. It was hit by the Japanese on December 7, 1941 and sank. In 1972 a memorial was erected near the ship.

─ Added by Randall J. Bunn during editing.]

RB:[That is] interesting.

EM:I did a good deed. This is not for print.

RB:What did you do?

EM:It is sort of interesting. Mrs. Gayler was the wife of [Admiral Noel A. M. Gayler, United States Navy, 1972 -- 1976]. [He was] a four star [admiral]. He was over everything, CINCPAC [Commander in chief, Pacific command].

RB: [He was the commander over Pacific forces. That was not just the Navy, but [over] all the United States military there.

EM:[He was] over all Armed Forces. She came in for a dental emergency. I took care of her. I fixed her up and we got her root canal treatment done. I did that [good deed]. As a result, I received a personal invitation for Admiral Noel Gaylor's birthday party. I received Christmas invitations from him. I was able 00:32:00to attend the retirement ceremony of ─ what was the [man's] name who was captured by Vietnam? [He spent] five years [as a prisoner].

RB:[Was it John Sidney] McCain, [III]?

EM:[It was] McCain.

RB:Did you meet him?

EM:I went to Admiral [John Sidney] McCain, Jr.'s retirement ceremony.

[He was the father of Senator John McCain. He retired from the Navy on November 1, 1972 from the position of CINCPAC. He died on March 27, 1981 and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery.

─Added by Randall J. Bunn during editing.]

RB:That was Senator [John McCain's] father?

EM: Yes. We had some nice experiences there.

RB:It sounds like it. That is a very nice place to live for awhile.

EM:[It was a] very nice place.

RB:Did you wife get involved in things as a Navy officer's wife?

EM:Yes. We put on parties and [events] like that.

RB:That is nice. You were a 0-5 there [and] in charge of that department. Is that the assignment that you were involved in for the entire time?

EM:[I was in that assignment] until the very end. Then I was [promoted to] O-6 [a Navy captain].

RB:You were a captain?

EM:[I was a] captain.

RB:What was your assignment then?

EM: I was moved out of my assignment.

RB:[Did] they move you out of Hawaii?

EM:I moved out of Hawaii [and] went to Orlando, Florida. From Orlando, Florida, I [received] a very special job at the Air Force Academy [Colorado Springs, Colorado]. I was chief of the dental branch of the Department of Defense Medical Examination Review Board. They examined all the applicants for the four academies. I did all the dental [reviews].

RB:The applications came in and you did not see the patients? You just saw [and] 00:34:00reviewed the records.

EM:I saw the records and reviewed [them]. If they needed something done, I would write little notes and send it off to them. We saw several that were disqualified for some very ignorant reasons until I changed them. They were disqualifying patients that had no incision on their front teeth because they could not bite down and bite a fuse off. That is how far back the regulation went.

RB:That was something they would not need to do in the 1970s?

EM:No. They don't bite fuses off.

BF:[Laughter]

RB:So somebody needed to update the regulation.

EM:I updated the regulation and put the new one in.

RB:[Laughter] I love it! You brought us up into modern times!

EM:We had a lot of good times in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

RB:I can only imagine. That is also a very nice assignment.

EM:As you can see, I have not had very many bad ones.

RB:When I was looking, [I realized] that I have been to most of those places, but never assigned to any of them. You said you went to Florida?

EM:I was in Florida for three years.

RB:Were you in Orlando?

EM:[I was] in Orlando at the naval station.

RB:What was your assignment there? [Were you] an O-6 there?

EM:I was in charge of all diagnoses.

RB:From there you went to your assignment in Colorado Springs.

EM:Yes.

RB:It was not for just the Air Force Academy. It was for all the academies.

EM:Yes.

RB:Did you meet some interesting people there in that assignment?

EM:I met a couple colonels [who] were nice, wonderful people. I became very close friends with some of them.

RB:[Did you retire] out of Colorado Springs?

EM:I think it was [where I retired].

RB:You were at Pearl Harbor until 1974. Then you spent three years in Orlando, Florida. That would take you to 1977. Then you went to Colorado Springs.

EM:[I was in Colorado Springs] four years.

RB:That would take you into ─ I am missing a few years. You may have had another assignment in between there.

BF:The first two years were for the ensign program?

RB:There was Pearl Harbor. In 1974-1978, you were in San Diego, Orlando, Colorado Springs and then back to San Diego. After Pearl Harbor, you went to ─.

EM:I retired in San Diego.

RB:Your record says that after Pearl Harbor, from 1974-1978, you were at San Diego.

Does that ring a bell?

EM:Not much rings a bell with me anymore! Sorry!

BF:[Laughter]

RB:No problem. You ended up retiring out of San Diego.

EM:[I retired out of] MCRD. They were going to give me a parade and then it 00:38:00rained on us.

RB:What does MCRD [stand for]?

EM:[It stands for] Marine Corp Recruit Depot.

RB:What did you do in San Diego at the depot?

EM:I examined everybody [who] came into the clinic, recruits included. Sometimes I would see up to seventy-five patients a day.

RB:Was it more diagnostic?

EM: It was all diagnosis.

RB: That kind of became your specialty.

EM: It was [my specialty]. The HIV [human immunodeficiency virus] hit us.

RB:[That was] in the early 1980s.

EM:Yes, we had to really hustle on that [problem].

BF:You graduated from Northwestern [University] in 1958. You were two years in 00:39:00private practice and then went right back in. Did you see dental practice change over time?

EM:Yes. If I went back to practice dentistry, I would have to go back to school.

RB:There have been a lot of changes in technology.

EM:[There are changes in] computerized work and implants.

RB:In the HIV period, were there precautions that you had to take [at that time]?

EM:We had the whole dental room covered with plastic. It was very sterile. We did not know anything about it.

RB:You needed to take precautions not to get in contact with blood. Or did you even know that then?

EM:We just made sure we did not come in contact with blood.

RB:There was a time in the 1980s, I think, when I came in that they were using 00:40:00the dental dam.

EM:[Was that the] rubber dam?

RB:[It was the] rubber dam. They would cover all over your mouth just for the tooth that they are working on. That was not always the case, was it?

EM:No, that started long before I even went to school.

RB:Is that right?

EM:It kept the inside of the mouth contact away from you.

RB:The first time that I experienced that [procedure] was at Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama. [I was] in the Air Force. They did that for a few years and then they quit doing that [procedure].

EM:It was a pain in the butt!

BF:[Laughter]

RB:It is hard to work on the mouth when you have all [these instruments and rubber dams] stuck in their mouth.

BF:Did you ever have to work with mercury fillings?

EM:Yes. I did it all the time.

BF:Do you have any lingering effects from those [fillings]?

EM:I don't think that I do, but I don't know. I blame everything on Agent Orange.

RB:Let us talk about your Agent Orange. When you got out in 1988, did you have any residual effects at that time?

EM:No.

RB:When did you experience effects?

EM:About ten years ago.

RB:That would be about 2008. You had been diagnosed with Parkinson's [disease] at that time?

EM:Yes.

RB:Did anybody draw the correlation between Agent Orange and Parkinson's [disease]?

EM:The government finally did [recognize it]. I was upgraded to a 100% VA [veterans] disability.

RB:When you [were discharged] in 1988, did you have any VA disability?

EM:I had about 60% or 70% [disability]. It was not due to [Agent Orange].

RB:[Was it due to] other things?

EM:I lost my hearing in one ear from the dental drill.

RB:I never thought about that [problem of the noise and the sound]. What was your disability? Was it 6% or 7%?

EM:[It was] about 60% [disability].

RB:Then it finally was upgraded up to 100%?

EM:Yes.

BF:[Was that] with the diagnosis of Parkinson's [disease] and its relationship to Agent Orange.

EM:Yes.

RB:Have you had any contact with other people [who] served in Vietnam from that period [of] Agent Orange?

EM:I kept in touch with my dental assistants. They were two fine young men. They had PTSD [post-traumatic stress disorder]. One recuperated from it. One of them went under.

RB:Was that from dealing with all these patients?

EM: What happened was, we found out the cause of everything. The two dental technicians were ─ their duty and function aboard ship, at that time, was to place bodies in body bags. They had to make sure that they were prepped. This one time they opened a zipper and there was movement of the corpse. They thought they had caused something bad and they just freaked out. That is what caused their PTSD. I was the one [who] did the anesthesia on the [man] that they said had moved. I knew he was dead.

RB:They did not know, but you knew?

EM:Yes.

RB:That caused them to experience a lot of stress from that experience.

EM:One became a bum and the other one made it on through [the experience].

RB:That is tough. When you [were discharged] in 1988, where did you live?

EM:[We lived in] Colorado Springs.

RB:Why did you move there?

EM:We built a house there. We really enjoyed it. After several years there, we moved to South Jordan [Salt Lake County, Utah] because we had daughters there.

RB:You retired in 1988. Did you work anymore?

EM:No.

RB:You had enough dentistry?

EM:I had been down in the mouth long enough.

BF:[Laughter]

RB:What kinds of things did you enjoy doing after you retired?

EM:[I] played golf.

RB:Are you a golfer?

EM:Yes. That was the hardest day of my life when I had to give away my golf clubs. Because of the Parkinson's [disease], I could not play anymore.

RB:Did they have a good set of golf courses in Colorado Springs?

EM:Yes. The Air Force Academy had two beautiful golf courses.

RB:I can imagine.

EM:They were [very] nice.

RB:So you moved back to South Jordan. Did you like being back in Utah? You had been away for a long time.

EM:It was sort of nice to be back amongst the people. I was a bishop back in Orlando, Florida.

RB:I was going to ask you about your church service while you were in the military. Did you stay pretty active in the church as you moved around?

EM:Yes, I did.

RB:Did you like being the bishop?

EM:It was the hardest job I ever had.

RB:You were dealing with a lot of things, I am sure.

EM:Yes.

RB:When you came down from South Jordan, you [moved] to Hurricane, [Washington County, Utah].

EM:We bought a house in Hurricane.

RB:Why did you come down here?

EM:My daughter lives down here.

RB:You wanted to be closer to your daughter.

BF:Which daughter lives here? [Was it] Michelle?

EM:[It is] Michelle. Her husband is the head man for the development over there by [Sky Mountain] Golf Course. What is the name of that [development]?

RB:I do not remember. It is the development by the golf course in Hurricane.

EM:Yes. He was the auditor for all of that [development].

BF:[It is] Red Mountain [Resort].

RB:Is that what it is [called]?

BF:Yes, because I have been there.

RB:Was it Red Mountain Golf Course?

EM:That is Red Mountain right there.

RB:What is the name of the golf course in Hurricane?

EM:I believe it is called Red Mountain.

RB:He is in charge of the whole [development]?

EM:No, he is over the facilities and the equipment and [inaudible].

BF:It is Sky Mountain.

RB:Sky Mountain?

EM:That is it.

RB:[It is] Sky Mountain Golf Course.

EM:Yes. Our home is not too far from that [golf course].

RB:How is your wife's health? Is she doing pretty [well]?

EM:No, she does not know it though. I think she has early dementia.

RB:Do you see her from time to time?

EM:I see her twice a week. My youngest daughter, Mareesa, is quite the person. She takes care of my wife. I do not know what is going to happen if she goes before me. I do not know [what will happen to her]. I have been here for five years. I was one of the early birds [at Southern Utah Veterans Home in Ivins].

RB:How do you like it here?

EM:For this type of facility, it is probably the best you can get. I always complain about the food.

BF:[Laughter]

RB:It is a nice place. The staff seems to be very nice.

EM:They are very nice to you.

RB:At some point, your wife might have to go into some nursing care facility?

EM:It is a possibility.

RB:She is your age, eighty-four years old.

EM:She will be eighty-four [years old].

RB:How many grandchildren do you have [now]?

EM:You are really pinning me down!

RB:[Laughter] That is hard!

EM:That is my granddaughter right there [gesturing].

BF:She is beautiful.

EM:I have three granddaughters and a couple of grandsons. My youngest daughter moved out here from Missouri to take care of us. She has been taking care of my wife very well.

RB:Your granddaughter?

EM:No, my number three daughter, Mareesa, [moved out here].

RB:Is she married to Steven Watts?

EM:He [has] a Ph.D. in computers [and] does a [very] nice job at Oracle [in Lehi, Utah County, Utah].

RB:Who works out at the golf course? Is that Michelle's husband?

EM:He does not work at the golf course. He works at Sky Mountain, the developer. [He is] the number two man [there].

RB:Who is Tom Brand?

EM:Tom Brand is my first daughter's husband. He is a dentist.

RB:Tom Brand is Melinda's husband.

EM:Yes. They live in El Cajon, California. He was just released from president of the San Diego County Dental Society.

RB:That is very impressive.

EM:He is also a great golfer.

RB:You have a lot of golfers in the family. Tom Brand, Monty Maxfield [who] works at Sky Mountain [and] Steven Watts. Where does Mareesa live?

EM:They live in [the] Pierpont subdivision. If you turn by the Walmart going out 00:52:00to Hurricane and go around to Pierpont ─ that is my daughter's house.

RB:If you had to look back at your military career, what would you say about it? What was the best thing about it?

EM:[The best thing was] traveling. It was very good. We travelled a lot. We saw almost all the Orient.

RB:What was your favorite place?

EM:We liked Hong Kong. I had a lot of contact with Admiral Gayler and these 00:53:00admirals. They always live better than you do!

RB:Was he a pretty nice person?

EM:[He was a] very nice person.

RB:[He was] in Hawaii. It sounds like you had a [very] good career.

EM:We had a wonderful career. Sometimes my wife and I sit on the couch and look all of the paintings that we have collected. We just have memories of them.

RB:Excellent!

BF:You have been married for, I assume, fifty-plus years?

EM:It would be about sixty-three years.

BF:What is your secret for a long-lasting marriage?

EM:Do what your wife tells you to do!

RB:[Laughter] Good!

EM:We are still married and we are still in love with each other.

RB:That is great.

EM:Both of us have bad illnesses.

RB:That is part of it. How have you managed the illness? Do you keep a good attitude about things?

EM:You have to do something about it.

BR:Good for you!

EM:I go out to my daughter's house. My daughter comes in from Pierpont. She goes to the home here. She picks me up at 6:30 a.m. on Tuesdays and Saturdays. She takes us out to her home. I spend time with my wife. Then my daughter fixes a gourmet supper for us. She is a gourmet cook.

EM:She also teaches sign language.

RB:She is quite accomplished.

EM:She is very accomplished. She takes care of us very well.

RB:It sounds like you have some [very] good daughters.

EM:They are wonderful daughters.

RB:I am sure you raised them well.

EM:They treat us to the point that we are almost embarrassed to ask them to go anywhere. We sold our car so we do not have any transportation. That was a hard thing to do.

RB:I bet. You kind of depend on them [and] they take good care of you.

EM:They do [take good care of us]. You know more about me than I do now.

RB:When you start talking about [events], you might not remember a birth date, but you remember what happened in 1964 and 1966 at Bethesda and at Hawaii. There are still some good memories in there.

EM:Yes. There are some good memories.

RB:Thank you for sharing it with us. I appreciate it very much.