Interview with Eldon Eugene Hafen

Eldon Eugene Hafen was interviewed on October 12, 2017 in St. George, Washington County, Utah by Dr. Douglas D. Alder, Heber Jones and Roxie Lee, a St. George researcher. He related his life experiences. His wife, Maxine [(Pymm)] Hafen, also participated.

DA:Heber will start with the first question.

HJ:We would like for you to tell about yourself, your parents, your grandparents and your siblings.

EH:That covers a lot of territory.

HJ:That is good!

EH:My father's name was Arthur Knight Hafen . He was born and raised in Santa Clara [Washington County, Utah]. He grew up on the farm and the ranch helping 00:01:00his dad [John Hafen]. He went to BYU [Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah County, Utah] after he got what schooling he could get in Santa Clara. [He went to] some other universities and [received] some degrees. He taught school at Dixie College for over forty years. He taught English, Spanish and German. I got along pretty [well] with Spanish and German, but I could never get the hang of English.

Dad was quite active in civic [affairs] of the town and The Church [of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]. He was a bishop for fifteen years [and] was a 00:02:00patriarch for the last part of his life. He served in a lot of different places [for] the church.

Mother [Minerva Orilla (Woods) Hafen] was born and raised in a little valley in southwestern Nevada called Clover Valley or Barclay [Nevada]. She went to a one room schoolhouse for the first eight years. She was the oldest in her family. Her mother [Elizabeth (Terry) Woods] died when she was about fifteen [years old]. She was mother to her brothers and sisters.

When she got through her schooling at Barclay , she flagged down a train that ran right through the valley. The train track was right through the valley. They sent her to BYU. When the train stopped in Modena [Iron County, Utah], to pick 00:03:00up a bunch of the Santa Clara and St. George students, dad was not there. He had already gone to BYU a few days earlier. That is where mother met my father's sister, Jessie [Hafen) Frei]. Jessie was Victor Frei's mother, if that means anything to anybody. They became so very close. She got acquainted with dad and they dated one another.

Mother gave birth to fourteen children. Twelve of them lived to maturity. As of today, there are five of us left. Mother had a gift; she loved people. Because 00:04:00she loved people, they automatically loved her. I still run into someone, once in awhile, who remembers how much they loved mother. She did wonders by raising that big family.

DA:Tell about the house where you lived.

EH:[The house] out there?

DA:[The house] here in town [St. George].

EH:The first seven years of our life we rented a home down on 500 South [Street], which was just off of Main Street. Actually, the home belonged to my brother at the time. In 1960, we bought this home and raised our seven children [Christine, Shawna, Sheryl, Brent, Scott, Kerry and Natalie Hafen].

DA:Tell about your parents' home.

EH:After mom and dad were married [September 11. 1912], they lived in Santa 00:05:00Clara for a year or two while he was teaching there. They had a home on about 500 East Tabernacle [Street]. It was not finished. There was a fellow by the name of Mahonri Snow. They called him. "Morris." They traded homes and they ended up with the one that is still standing on 148 East Tabernacle [Street]. 00:06:00[It is] the only one on the upper block.

DA:What is the name of the computer company that is now in that home?

EH:InfoWest. That is where we were raised.

RL:What are your parents' full names?

EH:Arthur Knight Hafen [was my father's name]. [My mother's name was Minerva] Orilla (Woods) Hafen.

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF]

HJ:You did not say much about yourself, Eldon .

EH:I was number ten in the family of fourteen. The folks raised twelve of the fourteen [children] to adulthood. There are still five of us left.

[There is] Ruth [(Hafen)] Squire. I think she is ninety-six [years old and is] doing well. She lives over on 400 East [Street] by the hospital. [Lawrence] Kelton [Hafen] lives just around the corner from her. I think he is eighty-four [years old]. "Don," the youngest one, has a home in California and one here. He has worked for JC Penney. It is the only job he has ever had in his life. He started sweeping floors for [Hyrum] "Hy" Thomas when he was about twelve years old. Then he [began] stocking shelves [and] worked as a clerk. Later, he was 00:08:00assigned a store in southern California. [He managed] two different ones down there [and] one in Hawaii and one in Oregon. He retired from a store in Las Vegas [Nevada] some years ago. There are five [Ruth, Lawrence Kelton, Donald, Erma and Eldon Eugene] of the fourteen children who are still living.

RL:Would you name your brothers and sisters in birth order and their married names if they took on another name?

EH:The oldest [child] was Kay [Woods Hafen]. He was killed in an accident with a wagon and a team of horses that our neighbors [had]. He was five or six years old.

The second [child] was Carma [(Hafen) Staheli]. She married Woodrow [Wilson] Staheli. She raised her family in Washington [City, Washington County, Utah]. All her boys were all great athletes at Dixie High School and [Dixie] College.

The next one is [Arthur] Ferrell [Hafen]. He was in the carpet business here in 00:09:00town for [many] years. He has been gone now for awhile.

Then there is Ada [(Hafen) Nielsen]. Ada married McKay Nielsen from Washington [City]. He became a dentist and practiced dentistry in southern California. She is gone.

Next was Herschel [Woods Hafen]. Herschel and I ran the tire business together down in Henderson [Nevada] and Las Vegas.

The next brother, Harold [John Hafen], started a tire business here in St. George in 1943. Three or four years later, he decided that he would like to 00:10:00become a school teacher, so my father and I took over the tire business. Herschel and I got our heads together [and] we branched out down in Las Vegas and Henderson. Harold taught school up in Roy [Weber County, Utah] for a lot of years.

Next was Ruth [(Hafen) Squire]. [She married Phil Ervil Squire.] She is still alive and during very well. She is a cancer survivor. She has raised a nice family and is very happy. We talk to her two or three times a week.

LeNore [Hafen] [was the next child]. LeNore married a non-member [Raymond Leon Hobbs] of the church during [World] War [II]. They lived in southern California 00:11:00[and] raised three girls. She passed away recently. She spent the last fifteen or twenty years here [in St. George] living [at] The Boulders. She loved Dixie College. She loved St. George. Have you had been in her home, Doug, and seen her Dixie room? She had it all fixed with Dixie College pictures.

There was a boy named Linford [Lamond Hafen] who died of pneumonia when he was just a few months old.

Then I came along [as the] next [child]. Later on, I will tell you how Maxine 00:12:00and I got together and raised a nice family.

Then there was my sister, Erma [(Hafen) Harris]. Her last name is Harris. [She is married to Parley Emmett Harris.] She lives up north now. She is still alive.

Then there is Kelton and "Don." [Lawrence] Kelton Hafen married Peggy Ruth (Nielson). Donald Ross is married to Sharon Ann (Spikes).]

MH:[There was] "Ken."

EH:[Kenneth] "Ken" [Ernest Hafen] was killed in a car accident when he was twenty-five [years old]. He was not married. [Do you have] any more questions?

HJ:While you are on that subject, will you tell a little bit about Clover Valley ? [Tell] about the history and bring it right up to when you got hold of it.

EH:Mother was born and raised in Clover Valley . Her grandfather [Layman L. 00:13:00Woods] came there with his [young] family in 1869. There had been some pioneers there prior to that time, including another grandfather [named] Samuel Knight. Some of the Santa Clara people moved to other places when the Swiss colony was sent by Brigham Young to Santa Clara. [There were] a couple hundred people there. There was not room for everybody, so some of the old timers moved out and the Swiss people took over. [In] the first group there was Luke Syphus and Edward Bunker.

HJ:There were two of my great-grandfathers among them.

EH:Tell their names.

HJ:[There was] Amos Hunt and William Ellis Jones. [They were] both there in 1864.

EH:Yes. The Indians [Paiute and Navajo] started giving them a bad time. So the church officials advised them to move. They moved in 1869. My great-grandfather came there. The reason he ended up there was that he was called to go down to the Overton [Nevada] area to settle down there.

DA:[Was that in] Overton?

EH:[Yes.] [It was] Overton, Nevada.

HJ:What was his name?

EH:[His name was] Lyman L. [Lamond] Woods. He had been through the valley on horseback [and] fell in love with it. There is water there. Of course, where 00:15:00there is water, there is green vegetation. He was quite impressed with the valley. When they moved down there, they had a drought [and] there was not any water to irrigate with, so he [received] permission to go to Clover Valley and settle there. That was in 1869.

He finally made peace with the Indians. They stole some of his cattle and some of his horses. When he finally caught them doing that [stealing], he sent for some of the chiefs from down at Moapa Valley [Nevada] to come. They decided that these young men [who] had stolen these horses and cattle should be whipped. They 00:16:00gave a bull whip to one of the five young warriors [who was] responsible for this theft. He was not laying that whip heavy enough, so one of the other chiefs took and started to really lay it on. After about the second pull, Grandpa [Woods] stopped him and said, "This is no way to make peace." They killed a fat calf and they had a feast. They were welcome to come there. The Indians would come and beg for food from Grandma [Woods]. She always took care of them. They were peaceful. [They] had no more trouble with the Indians.

HJ:What was his wife's name?

EH:Lyman L. Woods married [Maribah] Bird. They had known each other in Nauvoo [Missouri], but they had not been more than just friends. When they settled in Provo, they married and started their family there. They ended up in Clover Valley .

The second generation was my mother's father, Lamond Woods. He pretty well took over that valley, the cattle and pastures. He bought his brothers and sisters 00:18:00out. There was no room for all of them to stay there. Then he sold out to his son, Fred [Woods]. He was a brother of my mother.

When Uncle Fred got ready to retire, he came to me and said, "I am going to quit. Would you be interested in buying the ranch?" I said, "No, I cannot see how we could possibly do that. We are in debt with our business." This was in 1963. I thought I had kind of turned him down. As I talked to my brothers about it, we kind of felt sorry we had [turned him down] without looking into it a 00:19:00little more. He came back in a month and said, "Well, what did you decide?" I said, "Well, we want to go for it." So we did. We bought some others out. [We bought] the Simkins family out [who] were there. We bought cattle from [inaudible] Leavitt and Faye Leavitt. [We bought from] two or three different ones.

We had to keep our nose to the grindstone, but we made a success from it. Today our children and grandchildren are enjoying it. Our oldest son, Brent [Hafen], is retired from the fire department. He spends the majority of his time there. Kelton has a son [who] is interested in it. He is still employed, but he does 00:20:00what he can to help. Different ones from Herschel's family go there, especially "Andy." Most of them were raised in Henderson, Nevada, but Andy spends a lot of time there. They are enjoying it.

HJ:What was your grandmother's name?

EH:She was a Terry from Terry's ranch. [Her name was] Elizabeth Terry. Her mother was ─.

HJ:Mary Ann?

EH:Yes. [Her name was] Mary Ann. What was the name of the ─.

DA:Can you tell us anything about Nels Anderson?

EH:Only what I have read. I never did know Nels because he was older than I was. 00:21:00He ran away from home when he was about fourteen or fifteen years old. There was a hobo on a train trying to get to southern California or somewhere.

DA:[He was] trying to get to Panama.

EH:Yes. You are right. They kicked him off the train there at Islan [Nevada], which is about five miles north of Barclay . He walked down the track. Grandpa was cutting hay out in the field. This boy came and asked him if he could get something to eat. Grandpa recognized him. He was quite brilliant and kind of a special person. He took him in almost like he was an adopted son. He gave him all the education he could. He became a very famous. You might have to clue me in along the way. I [don't] remember the exact details of what Nels did.

DA:He wrote an important book called Desert Saints.

EH:I have that book.

DA:He served in [President Franklin Delano] Roosevelt's administration both in the United States and in Europe throughout [World] War [I]. He was a very important person. He kept a journal when he [was] in World War I, which is illegal. That journal was recently found at BYU in the archives. They did not even know they had it.

EH:I did not know that.

DA:It has just been published. He tells what it was like for a Mormon boy to be in France fighting in the war and meeting other Mormon boys.

RL:[Inaudible]

DA:Nels was a student of Juanita [Leone (Leavitt) Pulsipher Brooks]. They were 00:23:00very close and Juanita helped him get access to records to write his book.

HJ:Tell about you and Maxine [(Pymm) Hafen].

DA:[She was] your first wife. [Laughter]

RL:Before you start into that ─.

DA:How long have you lived in this house?

EH:[I have lived here] since 1960.

DA:Wow! Sixty years!

MH:A long time! [Laughter]

EH:No wonder the plug-ins do not work. [Laughter]

HJ:[Laughter]

DA:I have watched them do all kinds of work on it. How many wards have you lived in while you have lived in this house? [Laughter]

EH:Let me go beyond that [time]. Maxine and I were both raised in the old East Ward. Because there [were] four or five years difference in our age, we did not know each other that well. Later, that became the Sixth Ward. After we were in the East Ward, we were in the Third Ward up in the west side of town, Sand Town. Then after we were married, we lived down on 500 South [Street]. We were in the Second Ward. When we moved here, we were in the Sixth Ward for several years. 00:25:00They changed it to the Twenty-sixth Ward. Now we are back in the Sixth Ward again.

DA:How did you get married to this woman?

MH:[Laughter]

EH:Back in the early 1950s, my best friend dated her best friend. It was quite common for the four of us to be seen in the streets of St. George in Ward Clark's 1949 Plymouth convertible. He was, at times, in my 1931 Model-A Ford. We 00:26:00just kind of fell into together accidentally. At that time, she was working as a dental assistant for Dr. Walter Snow. And later on, he was drafted into the [United States] Army to be a dentist. That left Maxine without a job. She was not without a job for very long because word got to Salt Lake [City, Salt Lake County, Utah] how efficient she was as a dental assistant. I cannot remember the doctor's name.

MH:I cannot think of it either.

EH:She went up there to work for him. My business took me to Salt Lake [City] 00:27:00once or twice a month. Whenever I would go there, we ─.

DA:How did you get there? Did you go on the Greyhound [Bus Lines]? Or did you thumb a ride?

EH:I took my truck. We loved to go dancing. After awhile, the doctor she was working for [in Salt Lake City] decided he and his family were going to move up to Oregon [and he would] practice dentistry up there. They wanted Maxine to come along and be part of their family. She was trying to decide whether or not to go. I did not like the idea of her going clear up there.

I am here to tell you that my prayers were answered in no uncertain terms. I 00:28:00knew that the most important decision that I would ever make in my life was concerning marriage. That prayer was answered. There was no question in my mind about what the Lord would have me do. I think you can fast forward and see what we saw just recently when we had a little family get-together out at Barclay . We had twenty-seven grandchildren, forty-two and counting great-grandchildren, in-laws and all. We were all sitting there together on the lawn and having discussions and enjoying each other. I thought: my golly, look what the Lord has got us into. We are so happy. We have so many wonderful offspring and family. 00:29:00She has been a true and faithful wife, mother, cook and doctor.

DA:What has been the monthly wage that you have been paying her?

MH:[Laughter]

EH:I said, "I will pay you what you are worth." She said, "I won't work for that!"

DA:[Laughter]

EH:I want to tell you my favorite story about her. The old home that we live in out at the ranch is right next to the railroad track. [After] Grandpa [Lyman] went there in 1869, the railroad came through along about 1890. The survey 00:30:00[team] wanted that track to go right through where the house is [located]. Grandpa had been good friends with the railroad authorities there. He sweet talked them into going around the house. It was quite a sharp turn right there. The road goes across the track right there by the house.

Maxine and the [children] were in the yard playing. My brothers and I were driving early cattle from one side of the tracks to another pasture on the other side. [There were] about 100 cows. When we got to the tracks, for some reason, they just refused to go across that track. We were doing everything and maybe even swearing a little to get those cows to go across [the tracks]. Maxine saw what the problem was [and] lo and behold, a blood curdling sound came up and 00:31:00here came a freight train blowing its whistle. Maxine came through the gate and over the track, pushed some of the cows this way and some of that way and got [them] out of the way of the train. It never touched one of them. [Laughter] That is what she is made of.

DA:Did she jump on the train? [Laughter]

MH:[Laughter]

EH: If she could have seen that engine ─.

[END OF TAPE -- SIDE ONE]

HJ:Start with your friends.

EH:Samuel Schmutz lived across the street. Alfred Stucki lived down through the block. Paul Wilkins, [Dr.] Howard McFarlane, [Calvin] "Cal" Cottam, Keith Bryner, D. J. Wirthin, Darrell Smith and others [were my friends]. [When I was] 00:32:00growing up, I had a lot of good friends who were a good influence. If it had not been for me, maybe they all would have turned out pretty good.

HJ:How did you spend your time together?

EH:Our playground was from the Virgin River to the Sugarloaf [Rock on the Red Hill]. We spent a lot of time up there doing [things together]. We had a swing at my dad's barn. We spent a lot of time swinging on that swing up in the rafters.

I wanted to tell you about my first job. My first job was working for a dairy 00:33:00farmer. [His] name was David Foremaster, who is [the] father of Dean Terry's wife, Carol. I was about fifteen [years old]. He had a small dairy with about thirty cows. I milked the cows in the evening and he milked them in the morning. Then I would help him on the farm down in Washington Fields whenever I could.

At that time, there were forty-eight dairy farmers in Washington County. Today there is only one [dairy]. I am not sure if it is invoicing to Iron County. [Robert] "Bob" Holt has a humongous dairy up [in] Beryl [Iron County, Utah]. 00:34:00When I say humongous, I am not stretching the truth.

HJ:[Does he have] 15,000 [cows]?

EH:I think that is how many [cows he owns]. It is unbelievable. I think they milk those cows three times a day.

HJ:Tell about your military service.

EH:When I graduated from [Dixie] High School in 1945, the Germans had already surrendered, but the Japanese were still going strong. I was eligible for the draft along with four other young men my age. At that time, they started 00:35:00drafting older men around thirty [years old] who had a child or two. There were five of the older ones drafted and five of us high school boys [were] drafted. Of the ones in high school, there was Merlin Sullivan, Jack Mathison, [Robert] "Bob" Langston, [James] "Jimmy" [Jergin] and myself. Of the older ones, there was David Schmutz, Marion [H.] Bowler, Clive] Bunker, [Benjamin] "Ben" Ence and one other. We went to Salt Lake [City] and [had] all of our preparations there. 00:36:00Then we went to Camp Maxey [Paris] Texas, where we took basic training. We had seventeen weeks of basic training. During that period of time, the word got over to Japan that the boys from St. George were on their way. They thought maybe we each had an atomic bomb in our pockets, so they threw their hands in the air! [Laughter]

DA:[Laughter]

RL:[Laughter]

EH:They started breaking us all up [then]. The person I could not think of in [the group of] those five older people was my own brother, Ferrell. He was ten years older than me. So when a transfer would come, we would tell them that we 00:37:00wanted to stay together. They allowed that because the war was over. They would not have allowed it [if] the war was still going. You probably have heard this story about the four Sullivan brothers. They were all killed in the same battle. After that [time], they never allowed brothers to stay together in the service. We did military occupation duty over there. It was not very difficult because the German people were beat down so much. They did not give anybody a bad time.

Ferrell was [able] to came home a little sooner than I did. I had bought a Swiss watch. I got a furlough in a drawing [and] I furloughed into Switzerland. While I was there, I bought a nice Swiss watch. When Ferrell [was] ready to go home, I 00:38:00said, "Why don't you take this home with you. It will be safer there." Somehow, between Germany and New York, that watch disappeared. Ferrell felt [very] bad about it, but it was not that big of a deal.

After the service, I started working with my brother at the tire shop. As I said before, he decided he wanted to become a school teacher, so my father and I took over the business. The last year I was at Dixie College, I arranged for all my classes to be in the forenoon, so I opened the tire shop in the afternoon and on 00:39:00Saturdays until I graduated. Then [I worked] full-time [at the shop]. Harold bought equipment and was trained to do recapping, retreading and repairing of tires. We advertised complete tire service for tractor, truck and car tires. It eventually got to the point that we could hire help. As much as we could, we hired people from our own family to work with us. That is the way we made our living.

HJ:Before we leave the war [activity], what do you think about the fallout? 00:40:00[What is] your position on the atomic fallout around here?

EH:I always felt like it was what had caused the death of several people. Some even indicated that the deer herd diminished quite rapidly out in the hills about the time that the fallout occurred. I remember being out at the ranch and seeing some bright lights from down beyond Las Vegas. I am surprised that the radiation ─ one of my neighbors died. It never seemed to affect any of us. I was always suspicious that the [United States] Government knew what might be 00:41:00going on. They did not let it be known.

HJ:Have there been any serious tragedies in your life that really affected you?

EH:When my brother, "Ken," was killed he was the same age as Maxine. He was only twenty-five years old when he was killed. That hit pretty hard. We lost an eleven year old grandson back in 2003. He would be twenty-six years old now if he was alive. That really hit hard. I felt kind of guilty about that [death]. We were all out at the ranch and I had some work to do with a backhoe up at a 00:42:00spring. I was afraid I would get stuck, so I asked [young] Skyler to come up and check on me in an hour or two and see if I needed a ride.

He was on his way up to see me and was going faster than he should [have been]. He went around a turn on the wrong side of the road and hit head on into a truck. We had the helicopter come from Mesquite [Nevada] and take him to the hospital in Las Vegas. They could not save him. That hit all of us [very] hard. He was a special little [fellow]. He was just more mature than his age. His other grandpa, [Peter] "Pete" Nyberg, had died just awhile before that [time]. 00:43:00When he left the valley to come and find me as I had requested, he said to his dad, "I am going to go check on grandpa." He did not say [which] grandpa. He actually went to check on his Grandpa Nyberg [instead] of coming to find me.

Those are the two things that stand out. We have been pretty lucky we have not had more serious tragedies. If you had two days, I would tell you about multiple times that my life was spared. We do not want to get into that [now].

RL:[We can do that on] the next interview if you want to tell those stories. It sounds like there is another direction that we are going. That would be an awesome interview.

HJ:Are there things that you have not done that you still want to do?

EH:We have done a little traveling. We [went] to Alaska on a cruise. We went to the islands out from Cape Canaveral on a cruise. We have been to Switzerland a time or two. We have been to different places, like Nauvoo [Illinois], and the church history sites.

DA:Have you been to the St. George Temple?

EH:She [Maxine] took me there one time.

DA:And you walked?

MH:[Laughter]

EH:It is not very far [from here]. I could throw a rock from here to there. We 00:45:00were temple ordinance workers for two or three years. I worked at the front desk for a year or two before we went on our mission. We went on a CES [Church Educational System] mission.

DA:Where [did you go on your mission]?

EH:[We went to] Fullerton, California. We were assigned to an institute there. The director of that institute was Edward Thompson.

DA:He has a lot right over there on the street.

EH:His sister lives there.

DA:The lot next door belongs to him.

EH:Does it?

DA:Yes. He will not sell it.

HJ:[Laughter]

RL:[Laughter]

EH:Do you remember Edward? Do you remember Caryle ["Carl" Thompson] who had Parkinson's disease?

HJ:Yes.

EH:Edward was Caryle's son. Caryle's dad was a plumber in town here for years. Caryle helped him. They tell a story about how they were doing some plumbing and they came into a problem that they could not quite figure out. Caryle's dad, George, said "Here Caryle, hold this wrench while I think." That has been kind of a joke around town all these years. [Laughter] "Hold this wrench while I think."

RL:Seriously, I was not trying to stop you from telling those stories. Afterward, I thought that it sounded like [that is what I meant]. I thought you were not ready to tell them. We do not want to miss those stories. I am game with whatever you are ready to tell.

EH:I do not know of anything ─.

DA:Tell one or two [stories] about how you were saved.

EH:Okay. When I was about ten years old, I inherited an old bicycle from my older brothers. It did not have one sign of a brake on it ─ not one sign. Some of my friends and I were riding bikes and we were up on Mt. Hope [on the Red Hill]. Do you remember where Mt. Hope [was located]?

DA:Yes.

EH:Roxie, [do you know]?

RL:I do not.

EH:From the Tabernacle, if you are going north, you come to a steep hill. That is ─.

DA:That is Juanita Brooks' house.

EH:Yes. We were there. Somebody challenged me to go down off of that with my bike. Like a crazy fool, I took the challenge and started down off of there. It 00:48:00was all downhill from there to the Virgin River. The first little bit was really, really steep. It was first half a block or so. I went right across the main highway there, what is now St. George Boulevard. That is where the road went [then]. After I [was] going down that hill, I picked up quite a lot of speed. When I think about it today, I had no control over what happened. That little bike just went right out there into a big patch of sunflowers and slid down on its side. All I had was a few scratches and bruises. Even though there was not that much traffic in those days, the chances are that I would not have 00:49:00survived. [Laughter]

HJ:You have been in the tire business and you have been in the cattle business. You have run a ranch. What do you see in the future for these kinds of things?

EH:I think the tire business has a good future. The ranch business has never been [very] prosperous for most ranchers. Some of them had a little better situation than others. The reason that most people are in the cattle business is that [it] is what they like and it is what they want to do. We never did draw much money, hardly any money from the ranch. We were always putting into it for 00:50:00improvements. Whatever profits were made went for improvements. With the government trying to get ahold of all of the feed that is on the range and controlling the waters, I do not know how it is going to work out for the cattlemen in the future. I have a couple of boys [who] wanted to be in the cattle business. I just hope that they can be successful. We were in it because that is what we wanted to do and [we] enjoyed it. [We] met a lot of friends that way.

HJ:What is your position on climate change?

EH:I wish I knew more about the scientific parts of it. My gut feeling is that it is a hoax. We do not have to worry about it. However, I am aware of the fact 00:51:00that there are a lot of emissions going into the universe. Millions and millions of cars and trucks are all burning fuel [inaudible] to breathe. It is a problem.

HJ:What is your position on the pipeline?

EH:I kind of have two [ideas] there. I was never one who liked to get into debt. On the other hand, this [area] has to grow. You cannot put a plug in it. I suppose that if we [can] get enough help from northern Utah, Kane County and other places maybe we can make a financial fix there. While we are talking about 00:52:00that kind of [an issue], I would like to say how it irks me that our politicians are not trying harder to do something about the national debt. I think that [it] is a disgrace that we are in debt so much and not doing anything about it. Or they do not tell us.

HJ:What is your position on the Dixie Rebel argument?

EH:[Laughter] I think that should have stayed where it was.

DA:You are a Rebel?

EH:[Laughter] Yes. I never could figure out about some of the changes they were 00:53:00making. I did not feel good about them. I hope this works out good with the [Trailblazers and the] Buffalo. [Laughter]

HJ:[Laughter]

RL:Was your father part of the group [who] founded Dixie College? Was your grandfather part of the group that founded Dixie College?

EH:I cannot hear her very [well].

DA:Was your father or grandfather part of the founding of Dixie College?

EH:I think grandfather might have helped a little bit financially. Dad and mom 00:54:00were married in 1911 [September 11, 1912]. That is the same year that Dixie College was founded. I cannot remember whether the state sponsored it or if the church [sponsored it].

DA:The church did.

EH:A few years later ─ you can tell this story better than I can. A few years later, the church could not afford keep it alive and the state did not want it.

DA:That was in 1933.

EH:Some of the legislators from here went to Salt Lake [City] and made arrangements to allow us to keep the college open. My dad was one of them [who] worked almost without pay. Sometimes he took firewood from his students as their tuition.

DA:Did you dad farm the whole time that he was a teacher? Did he have a farm?

EH:[He had] a small one. To begin with, he had a small farm down [in] Bloomington [Washington County, Utah]. [It was] not far from where Bloomington Elementary [school] was [located]. It was only eleven acres. He raised some grapes and some melons, [but] mostly, he raised alfalfa to feed the cows. He always had three or four milk cows around. We would sell [the milk]. [As children], we would deliver milk around the neighborhood for $.10 a quart or $.25 a gallon. When it came time to put up the alfalfa, he would have to go to 00:56:00Santa Clara and borrow his dad's team and mower. It would take about a week to put up that hay. We had it hauled to St. George. There was no bridge across the [Virgin] River. The road went about where [the] I-15 [Freeway crosses the river now. I can remember more than once our tipping a load of hay off into the river.

DA:[Laughter]

EH:It took about a week. It was a lot of work. I was young enough that I could hardly run a pitchfork then. I could tromp the hay. I have a nephew who farms up 00:57:00on the Beryl desert [Iron County, Utah]. He raises 800 acres of alfalfa. He can put up 800 acres in a week's time where it used to take my dad a week to put up eleven acres. We have seen some changes. [Laughter]

DA:[Laughter] Did you ever know Orval Hafen?

EH:Of course, [I did], he is my uncle. I knew him well.

DA:Are you cousins?

EH:He is my dad's brother.

DA:Yes.

EH:He was a good man.

HJ:Do you remember when the oil well blew up?

EH:I do not know that I actually remember it at the time. I have heard a lot of stories about it. My older brother, Ferrell, was going down there with his 00:58:00friend, Rex Nelson. For some reason [my brother] backed out at the last minute [and] Rex was killed with a lot of other people. I have been to the site after the accident happened and blew up. As far as actually remembering ─ I was born in 1927. Do know what year that [happened]?

HJ:It was in about 1935. [March 6, 1935.]

EH:I would have been about eight years old. Maybe I do remember the tragedy, but no details.

DA:Do you remember making telephone calls? [Laughter] That story reminds me of the telephone operators.

HJ:And the telephone strike.

EH:I do not remember.

HJ:You do not remember when the firemen washed the girls off of the street?

EH:No. As you mention, I do have a faint recollection of that, but nothing strong.

DA:Did you have a telephone at your home?

EH:Yes.

DA:Really?

EH:Our number was 198.

DA:You were modern!

EH:And Uncle Guy [Hafen's number] was 84J. [Laughter]

HJ:Tell about your deer hunting.

EH:I want to tell a little story about telephones. My sister, Erma and Jewel Mitchell, who married [William] "Bill" Bringhurst, who still lives over here on 200 East [Street] ─ Jewel and Erma were very close friends. We were all in the front room and the telephone rang. My brother, Ferrell, answered it. He was 01:00:00quite a prankster. It was Jewel. Erma was expecting that call. When he answered the telephone, he said, "JC Penney, "Hy" Thomas calling. What can I do for you?" She said, "Oh, those operators" and hung up. In a few minutes, the telephone rang again. He said, "[James Andrew] "Andy" McArthur, McArthur Bakery. What can I do for you?" She said, "Oh, those darn operators!" [Laughter] She hung up. This went on another time or two. [He] sure had her annoyed! [Laughter] What were we going to talk about, Heber?

HJ:The deer hunt.

EH:Yes. My dad was not a deer hunter. He spent a lot of time out in the 01:01:00mountains [on] horseback with the cattle working for his dad. He did not particularly enjoy shooting an animal. He did, for my sake, take me out with a bunch of the Santa Clara people out to the Dutchman's Ranch, which is out west and south of Enterprise [Washington County, Utah]. Dad shot a doe. She still had a fawn sucking her and she was poor. She was not clear dead yet. He had to shoot her again. It was so sickening that neither one of us could hardly stand it. That was my first deer hunt that I can remember.

When I [had] a leave from the Army in the fall of 1945, my brother, Herschel was 01:02:00home from the war and overseas. My brother, Ferrell, who I was in the service with, [was home]. We went out to the Dutchman's Ranch and hunted deer out there. [Inaudible] Most of my deer hunting took place with my friend, Clive [Milton] Burgess, up at Mountain Meadows [Washington County, Utah]. We hunted there year after year after year and had great success. That is about all I have to say about that [experience]. [Laughter]

HJ:Do you have anything to say about politics?

EH:I never did get too involved in politics. I never was a [very] staunch 01:03:00Republican. I leaned toward the Republican ─.

[END OF TAPE -- SIDE TWO]