Interview with Hilda Grace (Fullmer) Thacker

Hilda Grace (Fullmer) Thacker was interviewed on May 5, 1969 in , County, by Fielding H. Harris, a representative of Voices of Remembrance Foundation. She related her personal history of living in various parts of and .

FH:What is your full name?

HT:My name is Hilda Grace (Fullmer) Thacker.

FH:[What] is your birth date?

HT:[I was born] December 5, 1906.

FH:[Where were you] born?

HT:[I was born in] , .

FH:[What was] your father’s name?

HT:My father’s name was John Price Fullmer FH:[What was] your mother’s [full] name?

HT:[My mother’s name was] Mary Ann (Hardy) [Fullmer].

FH:What do you remember about your early childhood? 00:01:00HT:I remember going to Primary and my father and mother taking me to Sunday school. I remember fasting. We had [to] walk a little ways, maybe half or three-quarters of a mile. Father would help mother carry us when we were too small to walk all the way. I remember there was an old fellow, by the name of Brother Feed, who owned a store. 00:02:00We used to call him Brother Feedy. He could [come] to the church house when the roads were muddy without hardly a speck of mud on his shoes. They were highly polished. He was an old German man, a lovely person. He owned a little store. I remember going there after Sunday school once in awhile or going on an errand for my mother. I remember this [inaudible]. [Laughter] It was wrapped in tissue paper and had pretty colors on the end. It was cut and was pretty. I thought that was nice.

I remember the Fourth of July celebrations. My brother, Elmer [Fullmer], 00:03:00the oldest brother, was on the program one time. When he was five years old they asked him to say the ABCs backward and forward and he did. He stood on a table. In the parade there were a lot of covered wagons. They [inaudible] them with oxen, but some [were] drawn with horses. The Indians came on their horses and grabbed him out of my mother’s arms. They were white boys all dressed up like Indians. 00:04:00They took him off for a little while and soon they brought him back. He thought that was really fun. [Laughter] I remember going to school. We had a Miss Barton [for a teacher].

FH:Did you have a memory about a little twin sister?

HT:I remember my mother’s twins, the first twins that she had. They were girls [and] their names were Ettie and Nettie [Fullmer]. They died about two days apart in November. [Ettie died November 12, 1912 and Nettie died November 16, 1912.] They were tiny babies and were born [October 30, 1912]. They lived [several] days and then died. I do not remember the funeral, but I remember one of them lying on a [inaudible]. I do not recall where the other one lay unless they were 00:05:00both laid down on the [inaudible] when they died. They were buried in .

FH:[Do] you remember the burial in the cemetery?

HT:I can remember it was quite cold when they took them to the cemetery. I do not remember if I went, but I have been to their graves since [then].

FH:You were telling about your [education]. [Do] you have a teacher you remember?

HT:Her name was Miss Hazel Barton. 00:06:00I cannot remember what she looked like. Then there was another woman [who] taught [us]. Her name was Miss Blanche Hitchcock.

FH:Did you like school?

HT:I was quite timid in school because I did not think I learned as fast as I should. I loved reading, spelling, history and geography. I was very poor in arithmetic until I [was] in the fifth grade and then I seemed to snap out of it.

FH:Do you feel that your teachers were good teachers?

HT:Yes. I think, as far as they knew, they did the best they could do. I really appreciated them.

FH:What was the school like?

HT:[I had] these teachers when we went to school in . 00:07:00It was on a little knoll and I think there were just two rooms. I can remember it was not very far from where the King family lived. They had a daughter by the name of Ora [King] who my sister, Julia [Mary Fullmer], used to go [around] with a lot. They played together when they were girls.

FH:How far did you go in school?

HT:I went through the eighth 00:08:00grade. Then we moved from out to the . Before that [move] my parents took a trip out there to the Basin. We were in a covered wagon and it was a long trip. When we [came] to Altonah [] we went up the [Duchesne] River on a little outing with some friends of my folks. Mother [became] sick when we were up there. She was in a lot of pain. They had to put her in the wagon and make a bed for her. We took her to Roosevelt []. It was about thirty-five miles from where we were. We travelled all that way. It took all night to get there. She was in 00:09:00misery. She had had a gall bladder attack. As far as I can remember, that is what it was.

She [went] to the doctor in . Her name was Dr. Miles, a woman doctor. Today she lives here in St. George. She is past eighty years old. We have been to visit her a time or two. She [helped] mother [get] better and then we went back to . That spring we moved out to the — out to what [was] called [].

FH:Was this where you finished your [education]?

HT:That is where I finished. I had a teacher by the name of Lois Bennion. She later married a Fullmer, a cousin of my father. 00:10:00Then I had Shirley Daniels as a teacher. I liked him very much. He was a pleasant fellow and told a lot of stories about World War I. He was a pilot. I had another lady teacher, Mayna Cannon. She was a very dear person. She was quite strict, but I loved her. She was a good teacher. 00:11:00I also had [a teacher] by the name of Bill Case [whom] I liked quite a lot. He was a nice fellow.

FH:Do you feel they were [very] good teachers?

HT:I think they did very well [considering] the conditions they taught under.

FH:Were all the classes in one room?

HT:There were about three classes in one room and three in the other [room]. We had two rooms [in the building]. The building was heated with a coal and wood stove. I remember my father used to haul wood for the school. It was bitter cold sometimes.

Father [received] a lease [from the Ute] Indian [tribe of the Uintah and Ouray Indian Agency] which was forty acres. We went out there 00:12:00in the spring and there was nothing growing on it but sagebrush. They had to [bring] water out to where he could put it on the land when he cleared it. With mother’s health and a family, [water was needed]. When father was plowing the ground, we all went out and picked up the sagebrush and put it in piles. Then at night we would burn the sagebrush [in] bonfires. We lived in a tent the first spring and summer we were there. I remember we did not have any hay to feed the horses. We did not have tractors or any [equipment].

Father used to make two trips to Vernal [] for loose hay he [put] on the hayrack. It would take him three days 00:13:00altogether to make the trip. By the time he [came] home, about half the hay would be gone. The horses would have to have feed. In a little while he would have to go back and get another load. That was around [a] sixty-five mile [trip]. That is how he got the hay that spring to feed the horses until the grass came [up]. [Then horses] could feed out and [he] worked them the rest of the summer.

It was [very] hard times. We did not have much to eat. The tent had no floor in it. We had a bedstead mother and daddy would sleep in and we made beds on the floor for us [children]. 00:14:00I remember a big hail storm that came one noontime when we were eating our dinner inside the tent. Daddy thought it was somebody throwing rocks at the tent and he hollered, “Hey there!” [Laughter] He looked out and it was hail about the size of a golf ball. I can remember how it roared. It scared us [almost] half to death.

FH:It is a wonder it did not tear the tent up.

HT:Yes. [Inaudible] Mother used to clean wheat. We had some neighbors [who lived] across a big canal from us on another forty acres of 00:15:00land. They had an old coffee grinder out on the side of their house. Mother used to send us over there with wheat to grind through the coffee grinder. With that she would make bread for us.

FH:Did you have coarse bread?

HT:We had coarse bread. She used to cook wheat for us to eat, too. She would make barley coffee out of it even with wheat. She would brown it in the oven. Daddy built a bowery outside of the tent and we had a cook stove out there. The first summer was quite rugged, but we were happy. I remember daddy and mother going up through the fields. They took a pan with them. I asked where they were going. They said, “We are going to go see if we can find some watercress or fig leaf greens or something.” When they came back, they had a few fig leaf greens and a 00:16:00little bit of alfalfa mixed with it. We had that for our dinner.

FH:That is what they had to do.

HT:That is what we had to do. I have always liked fig leaf greens, but I cannot get them to taste like mother’s. [Laughter] That fall we had to move back to Castle [Dale, ]. Daddy used to work in the coal mines a lot. We camped in our tent down by the [] River for awhile. I remember the train 00:17:00used to come along up on the side hill. One time there was a fellow [who] waved and waved a white handkerchief at us. He knew who we were, but we did not know who he was. Come to find out it was my grandfather [who] was on the train. We would not wave back because mother had told us not to wave at people. Several years after that he told us it was [him]. We were quite surprised.

There was a man [who] was killed along the tracks one evening. It was a terrible [accident]. We did not go up around it. The train was stopped there for hours where we could see up on the tracks. I think it was that winter when I had an uncle [who] was killed in the coal mine — the husband of my aunt, Alodia [Frances (Hardy) Ferrimond], [James] “Jim” Ferrimond. He was a little Englishman [and had] come over here from . 00:18:00I think he had three babies. His wife had died. He came over here with those three babies and married my Aunt Alodia, my mother’s youngest sister. She raised two girls. The baby died. I think it died over here. I am not positive about that. The names of the girls [who] lived were Klenza, the oldest, and Leah Ferrimond.

FH:Did you have any activity [in The] Church [of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints] during the years you were growing up?

HT:I used to sing a little bit in Primary and Sunday school. I used to be in the school programs once in awhile. 00:19:00I can remember being in a pantomime once. That was all.

FH:Did you have any church [positions] in the years before you were married?

HT:I was secretary for the young ladies Mutual [Improvement Association] in for awhile. After I was married, I was secretary in the Primary for a couple of years.

FH:What do you remember about your father?

HT:My father was a good farmer. I [asked] my Aunt Alodia to write a little story as much as she could remember about him and mother when they were first married. 00:20:00She said, “He could start a garden or an orchard and get it growing faster than anybody I know.” It seems like he was a good hand at those things. He could [grow] a beautiful garden and always had good crops. I remember he planted yellow clover the first summer we were out at the Basin so as to get it to grow quick for hay for the winter and for [the] next spring.

FH:Can you remember your father’s parents?

HT:No. My father’s parents [John Solomon and Juliette Fullmer] 00:21:00were dead before I was born. I can remember stories he told [about] when his father died. His father also worked in the coal mine. He used to do the blasting. They had to use dynamite and fuses and then get back out of the way before it blew up. He set off a blast or two. Then there was one that did not go off. He waited. I think it blew his eyes out.

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF] HT:My father used to be quite religious. He was a priesthood bearer and he had the power 00:22:00of healing through the Priesthood, the gift of healing. I remember they told us about my sister, Irene [Fullmer; she] was older than I. She had scarlet fever and pneumonia together. She was delirious for ten days. They thought she would go at any time. They had to depend on the elders a lot in those days. They had the bishop and another one of the counselors staying in the home with father and mother. They had administered to her several times and it did not seem to do any good. Mother needed some water and they had to carry it from the ditch. It was after dark. Father 00:23:00took the bucket and went out and closed the door. He turned around and looked at Irene and said to himself, “If she is still alive when I get back, I am going to administer to her again.” When he [returned], she was still alive. He handed the oil to the bishop and said, “Bishop, anoint that child.” And he looked at him like: have you gone crazy or something? So he anointed her and father administered to her. 00:24:00She immediately sat up in bed and looked around like she had been lost for about ten days. She got better from that.

FH:There was real power in the Priesthood.

HT:Yes. In those days there really was. He also healed my sister-in-law, my husband’s oldest brother’s wife [Wealtha]. She was having trouble [delivering] one of her babies. She had even told them good-bye because she could not [inaudible] and get the baby. We were up in the country away from the doctors. Father and mother were there. Father said to LeRoy, “Do you believe in the Priesthood?” He said, “Yes, I do.” He said, “Get me some oil and I will anoint your wife and administer 00:25:00to her.” So they did. As soon as he took his hands off of her head, the baby came.

FH:What do you remember about your mother?

HT:Mother was a very patient person. She was also religious, quiet [and] a serious person. She loved her family dearly. She taught us the right things. She taught us to pay our tithing and our fast offerings. I can remember when I was a little girl I went out. Daddy had some gooseberries and since he already had some people come and pick them, there were a 00:26:00few yet to glean. So I asked mother if I could go and pick the rest of the gooseberries. She said yes. So I picked a quart of gooseberries after the ladies had been there. I turned it in for tithing. [Laughter] That was the first tithing I can remember paying — [those] goose berries.

Mother was very active in the church. That is, she always went, but she did not [hold] any offices that I know of, except Relief Society visiting teacher. She was always willing to give and paid her tithing up to the time she passed away.

FH:How many children did your mother and father have?

HT:Mother and father had fourteen living children. 00:27:00FH:She was a busy person!

HT:Yes, she was. She did not have a doctor with any of them but the last one. She may have had a doctor a time or two. I know she had Dr. Miles with the last baby.

FH:Could you name those fourteen children?

HT:Julia Mary, [Cynthia] Irene, myself, Hilda, and Arvella [Fullmer]. My oldest brother is [John] Elmer [and] the twins that mother lost, Ettie and Nettie [Fullmer]. Then Cleo [LaVern] [and] Lamar [Fullmer], another set of twins. LaVern died [February 7, 1953] but Lamar is still 00:28:00living. Then Viola, Oral [De Voe], Fred and Jean [Fullmer] FH:Have your brothers and sisters remained active in the church?

HT:No, I am sorry to say [they have] not. They are scattered a bit. My oldest sister [Julia Mary] is not active. She lives in at this time and is married to Oliver Olsen. She drifted away from the church when she left home at seventeen years of age. She worked in Salt Lake [City, Salt Lake County, Utah] at the Hotel Utah for about ten or twelve years. She just let things keep her from going to church. When she was at home, she was singing in and going to Mutual and going to church. 00:29:00After that, I do not know whether she ever went to church.

FH:Are there a few [who] are active in the church?

HT:My sister [Cynthia Irene] older than I, has been through the temple. I do not think she ever did very much in church. She [received] her endowments [and] had a large family of ten children.

FH;Did most of your [siblings] have large families?

HT:No. I have the largest family of any of them. The sister [Cynthia Irene] just before me had ten children. We have each lost one. [Inaudible] Besides myself, my sister, Arvella, 00:30:00had four children. I guess LaVern would be next. Cleo would be next; [she] had three [children]. Lamar had one [child]. He did not have the privilege of having any more. They adopted him. They have only one [child]. My sister [inaudible] had one baby [who] died right after birth. Viola never had any children. 00:31:00Oral [De Voe] has two sons. He died last month March [28, 1968]. He lost his oldest boy from his first marriage about four years ago this next July. That was the only child he had [by that marriage] and he has only had one other son. He, himself, has passed away. The boy is living with his mother in . He is thirteen [years old]. Fred has one little boy. 00:32:00[END OF RECORDING ONE.] HT:Sometimes it would be [so] cold it would sting your nose. We would wrap up good. The horses were good on the buggy and we 00:33:00had a good ride. We were cold when we [arrived] there, but warmed up and had a good time dancing. When we were courting, our courting days were a lot different than most people. We did not have any way to get around except [with] a horse and cart, but we had a lot of fun. Then, later on, we rode horseback, [went] dancing and singing a little bit. We used to sing together.

FH:Have you enjoyed music?

HT:I have enjoyed music a lot. I tried to play the piano. I wanted to learn music, but 00:34:00my hands did not seem like they were the type that could handle the keys very well. I did learn to play some of the hymns and I used to play a few duets with my sister, Arvella. She was really the piano player of the family. Music has meant a lot to me. I have always wanted my children to take up music, at least [for it] to be satisfying to them, to be good singers in church when they were called on to sing, especially spiritual-type music.

FH:Have you enjoyed reading?

HT:I have loved to read all my life.

FH:What kind of reading do you enjoy? 00:35:00HT:When we were first married we used to read almost anything we could pick up. We used to get a lot of Zane Grey books in our first married years because we did not have a family. When I was going to school, I liked history and geography and reading real well and spelling. I was a good speller at the time. Just going through the eighth grade I could not have much chance for anything else.

FH:Tell about your courtship and your marriage.

HT:We went together about two and a half years before we were married.

[Claude Merlin and Hilda Grace (Fullmer) Thacker were married October 27, 1924 in .] FH:Do you remember how you happened to meet him?

HT:Yes. Remember ’s [Drive-In]? 00:36:00We were the clowns. [Laughter] We used to take part as a clown out in the Basin. We were told one time we were the best clowns. One woman said, “I have seen a lot of professional clowns, but you are the funniest ones I have ever seen.” She told him [Claude Merlin] he was really good. I remember when I first met him he was a clown. I did not have any idea when he went out to a celebration that I would be going home with him that night. It was quite an experience and [we] had a lot of fun. I was with my girlfriend, Fern Osborn. She went home with her husband’s boyfriend, Leonard Wall. We had a lot of fun that day. That is when I met him. 00:37:00We went together about two and a half years before we were married. We were married in the home of his sister, Rachel, in by our bishop, Earl Case. We lived for about six weeks with his brother [and his wife], LeRoy and Wealtha [Thacker]. We used to go to the dances with [them]. After awhile, [my husband] built us a little lean-to building like a chicken coop and we lived in that one room for about four years. Then he added on another little room for a bedroom. In the wintertime when we would go to bed at night, we would have to heat rocks or iron and put 00:38:00at the foot of our bed to keep our feet warm. It was so cold. All we had was just the boards for a wall. They shrunk and there were cracks about an inch wide. Heavy building paper lined [the] inside.

It was bitter cold. When the fire [went] out, we could see our breath in the house; it was so cold. Our bread would freeze up at night. [Laughter] We could hardly break it in the morning. That is how we lived for about three or four years — in that little shack. But it was ours, anyway. I thought: here is one time I can go to bed and [the roof] will not leak on me. 00:39:00I had had enough of that when I was a [child]. Daddy could not build a very good roof, it seemed like. [Laughter] It was a dirt roof and a lot of times it would leak [and] mud would fall down in our faces.

We shingled that little house, but the first good rainstorm that came along it leaked on us. It seemed it [rained] so hard that the water backed up under the shingles. I guess it did not have enough slope to it. We would pull our bed around in the spot where it was not leaking [and] kept our bed dry. [Laughter] We had big cracks in the floor. I had to scrub bare floors. I was strong and young and it did not hurt me. I have always been healthy and strong.

FH:Did you stay here until 00:40:00the first child came along?

HT:Yes. Our first baby came March 3, 1929. It was about four and a half years after we were married. We were married in 1924.

FH:How many children have you had?

HT:We have had eleven altogether.

FH:Tell about each child starting with the oldest one.

HT:We named our first baby Clauda Grace [Thacker]. We named her after her daddy and after her mama. She weighed about six and a half pounds when she was born. She was born in 00:41:00in the home of Claude’s sister, Sarah [Thacker]. She was a nurse. We had Dr. Miles come up from [to] take care of us. She was a delicate little thing, [very] sweet and tiny. I had trouble breast feeding her. We could not seem to get anything to agree with her. Wealtha, my sister-in-law, had a baby in January. She said, “I will take your baby and nurse her for you if you want me to.” She had plenty of milk for her baby. So she nursed her for me for quite a while. [Then the baby became able to] handle cow’s milk and got along alright. 00:42:00She grew [and] was a good little student when she started school in first grade at . She loved school. Her first teacher was Edith Hamburg from Mountain Home []. She loved Miss . She loved to go and eat [a] hot lunch. That was when they first started hot lunches. I think it cost $.06 a day. She would take her pennies and have [a] hot lunch at school.

FH:That was a good thing, too.

HT:Yes it was. She rode the school bus. We lived out about a mile and a half from the school house in . Claude [Merlin] built us a nice little two-room house after she was born. We moved into that [and] it was a lot better. 00:43:00We had coal stoves and had to keep the fire [going] all night to keep warm. She went to school until she was nine years old and we moved to the State of . She was a good student in . They were having a school celebration. I cannot remember what it was for unless it was Armistice Day. They found out she had a nice voice so they asked her if she would sing. She had to sing a solo in school. However, she and her other two sisters used to sing 00:44:00songs at the Granger Meetings that the citizens held. Clauda sang in school and I was invited to the program. I was really shocked when I heard her sing.

FH:Did you know she was going to [sing]?

HT:I did not know she had such a pretty voice. It really surprised me. I just could not keep the tears back. It was during the time just before World War II. It seems like the song she sang was There’s A Rose That Grows in No Man’s Land or something like that. Anyhow, it was about an [American] Red Cross nurse. She sang it so pretty. 00:45:00Then she sang two or three times after that. She took music lessons from the Catholic sisters up there.

We had an old organ [that] we had gotten from the church and put it in our home because we had to move [it] out of the building they were holding church in. There was no one else to take it. Claude, at that time, was superintendent of the Sunday school. So we had it in our home and used to hold Sunday school in our home. She could practice on that.

They had a music festival for their students and she played a waltz tune. She used to help me a lot in our home. 00:46:00I remember when she would come home from school in the fall of the year. We [had] great big beautiful Delicious apples. Before she would ever come in the house she would go downstairs [to] the basement and pick up two or three apples to bring upstairs. She was always eating an apple when she came in the house. She just loved apples.

We were up there for one and a half years and then we moved down to Kamas []. She was fourteen [years old] when we moved to Kamas. She wanted a birthday party for her next birthday. 00:47:00The neighbors across the street gave her a little party. She had made herself a formal. She had just started into high school in Kamas and she was invited to a junior prom. It is whenever they have programs in the spring of the year. I guess it was the junior prom. She made her own formal. It was a [very] pretty little formal. She just loved it. She said, “Mama, would you take my picture in my formal?” I said, “Yes.” So we went over at the neighbors’ because they had a nicer door to stand by than what our house [had]. We lived in a little shack, more or less, [in] Kamas. We went across the street and [I] took her picture on their doorstep. 00:48:00The school took a picture of her class group about that time. That was on the third of March.

The twenty-third of April was on a Sunday. Her daddy had had his teeth out during that winter. She said, “Daddy, would you take us to Vernal today? I would like to get acquainted with some of my cousins this Sunday.” He said, “It is a too late to go over there, Clauda, and I do not feel like going anyway. I do not have any teeth 00:49:00and I do not believe we better go today.” She said, “Then could you take us to Heber []?” He did not want to go down there, either, because he did not have his teeth. I said, “Clauda, can you find some friends that you can go see if you are lonely?” She said, “I do not have any friends here.” I said, “Oh yes you do. I know a lot of people [who] spoke very well of you. I think you could go and see somebody. Why not go see Katherine King?” She hesitated for a few minutes and, the first thing I knew, there was a knock on the door and Katherine came in. I said, “Katherine, I am sure glad to see you. Clauda says she does not have any friends and she is [very] lonesome today.” 00:50:00Katherine said, “You come and go with me. Mrs. Thacker, do you care if Clauda comes with us?” I thought she said with us, anyway. She said, “We are going up the canyon a little ways and we will not be gone too late.” I said, “Sure, she can go with you.” I thought her parents were going with them for a little outing.

She went with Katherine. When she left the house I said, “Clauda, you better wear a sweater because it might be a little chilly out away from town if you are going up the canyon a ways.” She said, “I do not think I will need one,” but she [took] it anyway. She [was at] the door and turned and waved to me. She said, “Good bye, mama.” That was the last time 00:51:00I ever saw her. [Emotional] FH:These things are hard to understand.

HT:We found out they had been up the canyon. She and Katherine had walked up past the high school in Kamas. They had been up on the hill and walked back down. There was a bunch of slide rocks there and there was a nice big rock that was lying at the side of the road. They sat down on that rock. Katherine was facing the hill and Clauda was facing the road because Katherine saw this rock rolling down and she hollered, “Jump, Clauda!” Katherine got out of the way, 00:52:00but Clauda did not know where to jump. I guess she hesitated [not] knowing which way to go. This rock that came down weighed about a ton. It hit the rock she was sitting on. It seems as though it flipped [the rock] over on top of her and it crushed her lungs. Her face and legs were all bruised and scarred. She only lived a little while. It took five men to lift the rock off from her. [Emotional] FH:It is difficult sometimes to understand why things like this have to happen.

HT:There was a little boy standing across Beaver Creek, across the road from where they were. He saw it all happen and ran for help. His father and a group of the men [who] were down at the high 00:53:00school came running up there. They were the ones that [lifted] her out from under the rock. They went after the doctor. He was up there about ten or fifteen minutes after it happened. She was still alive and he [put] her in the car and went to Coalville [], he and Ivan Turnbow. They were traveling as fast as they could to get her there. They had to stop and have somebody make a call to Coalville to have the hospital ready for her. But she died on the way over. They said she had lived only about a half hour. We are very thankful that she did not have to suffer very long. [Emotional] FH:Tell about the second child. 00:54:00[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF] HT:[Sarah] Joyce [Thacker] is the next [child]. She was a larger baby, a fat and healthy little baby. She was also born down [at] Sarah’s home. We had Dr. Miles for her. She grew up to be a normal little girl, a healthy one. She had a lot of fun playing with Clauda. They were real companions together as sisters would be. They were about eighteen months apart. She was born December 27, 1930. 00:55:00She is married now and has four children of her own.

FH:What is her married name?

HT:Sarah Joyce (Thacker) Maughan. She married Courtney Eugene Maughan.

FH:Where do they live?

HT:Right now he is still in the [] Air Force. He is about through. He has made it a career. He will be out about two and a half years from now. She is back in at McGuire Air Force Base. They went to and then they moved to for a little while and then back to . 00:56:00They have worked in the church everywhere they have gone. They left and went up into . There they helped to build a church. They did a lot of good service up there. She has been the president of the Primary and I think the Relief Society, too. She has worked in the Relief Society [as a] counselor. He has been active. He takes the minutes at the Priesthood Meetings. [Inaudible] She came down to Kamas for a year and put her 00:57:00children in school. Then she moved back with “Gene” [when] he was up in at the time. They were up there from June until December of that year. Then they moved back to . She was in , until about two months ago [when] she moved to . She lived there from the last of July until that time alone with her family. They were going to come home for a vacation last summer and the service said they had to move. So they could not come on their vacation 00:58:00[and] did not get to come home. We have not seen them now for four years. She was driving a school bus back in . She said she was going to try to get another [bus route] in .

They were sitting in conference one day last month and heard her husband’s name read off as a High Priest. He is gaining ground that way. They were [very] happy. She had to call and tell us about it. She has begged us every year that they have been back there to [come] to the [Hill Cumorah] Pageant, but we have not been able to do it. We would like to this summer, but I doubt if we will be able to.

Our next child is Clora Ann 00:59:00[Thacker]. She married Edwin Jackson Stokes. She was always a timid little girl when she was growing up. She was not noisy or loud like lots of children. She would get [very] frightened if we would raise our voice to her very much or if we raised our voices to each other. There were no serious illnesses, except measles and mumps. She was quite healthy. She had one daughter named Peggy [Stokes]. She has never been able to have any more children. 01:00:00She had an operation last summer to take care of her health that way. She has adopted two little children, Trudy and Eddy. They are [very] sweet little children. They live in . Peggy is going to school there. She wants to come here to [, County, ] next year.

[Our] fourth [child] is Fay [Thacker]. She was a tiny little girl, but very wiry. She was always good in acrobatics. She was an acrobatic girl when she was going to school and around home. 01:01:00She started school at Kamas. It seemed like she got along well. When she [finished] high school, we were poor it seemed like. He had a good job, but it seemed like there were so many [children and] we could not put them all in college. So she decided to [enlist] in the [] Army herself. She was there seventeen months [and] then she married.

Her husband is making a career of the Army. They are living in 01:02:00at this time. Fay has traveled quite a lot with her husband. When she [enlisted] in the Army she went back to , and was also in . I do not remember the base there. She was privileged to go to [City, to] see the city and the Statue of Liberty. She married Ted Allen Taylor [and] they were not married too long before he was shipped to Okinawa [], his first overseas assignment. About a year later, she went 01:03:00there to [be with] him. She said she had a good time going over on the boat. She sang with the orchestra. She has a beautiful soprano voice [and] was quite entertaining while she was traveling over there. She [arrived] and the men were there to meet their wives. She had a good experience there and took a lot of pictures and showed us . She tells about things that happened to her over there.

Their first baby was born over there. She had to have him Caesarean. The baby got along just fine. When he was about four months old he [came down with] spinal meningitis and blood poisoning together. 01:04:00They almost lost him. They had good doctors working with him, the best doctors they could get in the Army. They had given him up. They did not think he would live. Her husband is not LDS, but she asked him if he cared if she [called] the elders for [the baby].

[END OF RECORDING TWO.] HT:She said he had to lie there with big needles in his head because the fever was so terrible. They told her that if he lived he would not be right, that his brain would be too damaged to do much good. They did not hold out much hope for him. 01:05:00She asked her husband about getting the elders and he said yes. She [called] them. They would not allow them to go in the room where [the baby] was. They let them put on masks and robes and stand in the door and pray for him. As soon as they prayed for him he started getting better. They had him home in ten days. He was only in the hospital ten or sixteen days at the most. He made a quick recovery. Today you would never know he had any damage to his brain. He is about the smartest little boy I have ever seen, a very brilliant child. His father is a very brilliant man. 01:06:00He is going to be every bit as brilliant as his father. It was through the power of the Priesthood and the good work of the doctors. He had some LDS doctors to help him.

She has three children. She lost her first little girl. She has had to have them all Caesarean. The baby that she lost was the same as Jacqueline Kennedy’s baby [Patrick Kennedy who] died, the same way. She is very fortunate to have these two children. She moved from Okinawa back to . Before she went back to she had her other baby, the one that died. Then while, she was still back there, she had another little girl. She was born in . 01:07:00They started moving at that time and came through the country [area] on their way to . She had her last baby in . The doctors thought it was best for her not to have any more children so she has not had any more. She is living in now and her husband has to go back overseas this September. He spent a year in . Now he has to go again. He is a career boy [and] that is what happens.

Joyce’s husband also is making trips back and forth on the airplanes all the time to and all over the world.

FH:[Who] is [the] fifth [child]?

HT:That is Myrle [Thacker], a daughter that we 01:08:00— well, we just love them all. We would not have any choices with the love we have for them. She was born in . She was about a year and a half old when we moved to . She was not there long enough to start school, but she was there until she was five years old. When she was four years old, she [was] burned very badly. I always have blamed myself for her being burned because I had dropped a match in the bedroom on the floor. We had no electricity. I used to take the lamp in there and set it by my bed. 01:09:00[I would] gather up the matches and the lamp in the morning and take it in where it belonged. This morning I dropped a match and I turned around to see where it went and I did not stop to pick it up. It went under the bed and I thought: the [children] will not see that because they had never gone and bothered around under the bed or played around like that before.

I [sent] the rest of them off to school [who] were going and I decided to peel some apples and bottle [can] them. All the time I was peeling those apples I had this match on my mind. I kept thinking: I will finish this and will go and pick up that match. I finished peeling the apples and put them on the stove to cook. We had to burn wood and the fire had kind of gone out. I went out to get some more wood 01:10:00to put on the fire and then I was going to go and pick up that match. While I was out to the woodshed picking up the wood I heard her scream and I immediately knew what had happened, that she had found that match. It was the most horrible, blood curdling scream I have ever heard. When I got to her I started beating out the flames. They were coming clear up over her head. She just had a little thin dress and slip on. The slip was made of this old rayon like we used to [have]. It just melted into her body. I could not get the flames out. She finally grabbed herself around like this and crossed her chest with her arms and rolled over on the floor herself and that put the fire out.

I could not think what to do. 01:11:00There was a baby crib [nearby with] blankets in it. I was so excited I did not know what to do. [The] poor little [baby was] lying there screaming. She thought I was whipping her because I was trying to whip those flames out. It burned her chest and ruined her breasts. She has only about part of [her] breasts on both sides. It burned her way up under her arm and on her back. The severe burns were up around where I had tried to pull her dress up over her head and it was still on fire. When I got the fire out I picked her up and wrapped her in a tablecloth that I had made out of some factory material. It had been bleached 01:12:00and bleached and I had just ironed it so I knew it would be clean. I opened it up and lay her on that on the bed and covered her over. She quit crying.

I went outside. I did not know what to do. I was home alone with the babies and I knew I had to get her to the doctor. I went outside and hollered. There was a car sitting right in front of [our] place. It was the neighbor’s car, but he was gone over the hill and did not hear me. I had to put her on a sleigh that we had and take her down through the middle of the road. [It] was all snow [everywhere]. I took her to the neighbors and had them take [us] to the hospital. She was in the hospital quite awhile. We finally had to bring her home and take care of [her] ourselves. [The burns] did not seem to heal 01:13:00under her arms. When [the area] healed up, she fell and broke it open again. There was a web under [her arm] that was drawing her arm down [and] would have caused her to be crippled. She would have lost the use of her arm.

It happened that there was a county nurse [who] came up and called [on us]. [She] looked at her [and] said, “Would you consider taking her to the clinic if I can get an appointment for you?” I said, “I sure would.” So she [made] an appointment with the finest clinic in []. I took her down there. They told me she had to have skin grafting done under her arm. We left her in the hospital and she had [the skin grafting] done. She was in the hospital [for] six weeks. She is a beautiful woman 01:14:00[and] has grown up to be so sweet. She has four children of her own. She went through college and is a school teacher. She is home now with her own little family and raising them. They are marvelous little children. They live in Morgan [Morgan County, Utah]. They were [very] good to her in the hospital.

FH:Who did she marry?

HT:She married Carl Lee Jensen from . They are at Hill Air Force Base [Ogden, ]. They have moved around quite a bit, but [now] he is a mechanical engineer for the [United States Air Force]. He has a good job and they have a lovely home.

FH:[Who is your] sixth child?

HT:[That] is our first son, Merlin Don [Thacker]. 01:15:00He was born in . He was the largest baby I had — better than eight pounds. I had a lot of trouble with Don. He had a lot of trouble digesting his food. We almost lost him. A good midwife told me what to do for him. I followed her direction and he came right out of it. That is more than the doctor told me to do. She had taken patients, two or three women there in her home, and had the doctor come to take care of them when they would have their baby. 01:16:00I had been down there to see my neighbor [who] was there. She told me the formula to fix for him and he really did well on it.

He always liked hammers and saws. People used to ask him what he was going to do. “I am going to be a carpenter like my daddy when I grow up.” He did not need a job [like] his daddy. He [grew] to where he did not like [carpenter work] so well. [Laughter] He would rather drive cars and [he] quit school. He [enlisted] in the [] Navy when he was seventeen years old. That [decision] has been hard on him ever since. He had a slight case of Bright’s disease when he was young. They all had yellow jaundice, 01:17:00measles and whooping cough and [diseases] like that. He is not extra strong now. He is having a hard time making a go of it and has to do extra hard work. He has a bad back. I do not know what we are going to do. Sometimes I worry so much about him. I wonder what he will ever do.

FH:Did he marry?

HT:Yes, he married Carolyn Durkee. She was from Vernal, a nice girl. They were married in the . They have two children. Carolyn is a nurse and she works once in awhile to help them out. They are trying to buy a home in Kamas now. Don, not having any education, is having a rough time keeping a job and even finding 01:18:00a good one. At the present [time, he is working] in the [] Mines. I do not know what they will be able to do about a home. They are trying to get a loan through to buy the home up there from us.

FH:[Who is the] seventh [child]?

HT:[Our] seventh [child] is Mary Lou [Thacker]. She was a sweet little baby. I had her in also. She was born [at] a midwife place where I went. I went there to have her, but I did not get there 01:19:00in time. We lived out of town about eight miles and, before I got there, she was born in the car. That was quite an experience. [Laughter] She came fast and I never had any trouble. She was a sweet girl, best-natured baby I believe I had as far as behavior and good nature. She was so cute. She ran around and played by herself and never caused me any trouble. She grew up in Kamas. She was not very old when we moved to Kamas. She started in school in Kamas. She always came home with a good report card. She is an extra 01:20:00good reader and [very] good at acrobatics. She did a lot of acrobatics, especially in high school. She learned to play the piano and is [a very] good piano accompanist.

I was so proud of her. She took part in these music festivals the school had. She accompanied nearly all the other students who had to sing duets, quartets or solos. She played for their spring festivals that their teacher, Brother Terry, put on while he was there. 01:21:00It was extraordinary for a small town. One of the girls [who] sang very well said, “I have never had an accompanist like Mary Lou. She just knows what I am going to do all the time whether she [has] practiced with me or not.” She still plays for her when they get together.

She also learned to play the clarinet in the band. She could play almost any instrument if she put her mind to it. She helped play the trumpet. She played the piano while he played the trumpet and helped him with the notes. 01:22:00She could also play an accordion. Her life in high school was mostly [centered around] music. She [became] quite discouraged because she wanted to go to college, but [others] consumed so much of her time [with] music in high school that she could not take the proper studies for college. It made her feel very bad.

She also [was] very active and good in genealogy. She has followed genealogy now for fifteen years. She [does] research [and] is very good; very definite with it all. I think she is not spending her life doing nothing. She is doing the Lord’s work and is very active in the 01:23:00church. Whenever she is called upon to do anything she is very willing. She has three children of her own but she does not let that stop her.

FH:Who did she marry?

HT:She married a wonderful man [Brent Spaulding] she met over in []. He was on a [LDS] mission in and she was there working for a Dr. Kerry. He was a dentist [and] she was his receptionist. She met [him] there. She was the missionary chairman. They used to get contacts for the missionaries. Once in awhile these girls would have the missionaries come to their apartment. 01:24:00There were two of my daughters there and another girl or two. They would fix dinner for the missionaries and that is how he [became] acquainted with her. He never said one word to her while he was on his mission. He was very true and faithful to his mission until he [came] home. He called her and told her he was coming back to see her. That is how they met. It was the next August that they were married after he returned from his mission. They were married in the .

FH:Where are they living now?

HT:They are living in []. He has been through school since then and has a good job up there. He is also working in the church. 01:25:00FH:[Your] eighth [child]?

HT:[The] eighth [child] is Linda Lee [Thacker]. She was a sweet little girl. There is not anything much to say [about] her baby years. They all grew up out of babyhood and went to school. One time I said to Linda, “Are you are a happy girl this morning, Linda?” She was singing and said, “Uh huh.” She was outside playing after awhile and still singing away. We had a peddler come to the door. He lived in Kamas, too. He said, “What is your name, little girl?” She said, “I am hoppy Linda.” [Laughter] That is what she said, “I am hoppy Linda.” 01:26:00She could not talk plain. He told me what she said: hoppy Linda.

She went through grade school [and] was a good student. She started to play the piano, too. She [decided] she did not want to practice very [much]. Mary Lou went on with it. I said, “Okay, if you are not going to practice, I am not going to spend money on you [to] take music lessons. When you make up your mind that you will practice, I will let you take music [lessons] again.” She said, “Okay.” She went several months [and then] decided Mary Lou was getting a little too far ahead of her in music so she decided 01:27:00to take music lessons again. She took [lessons] from the teachers around Kamas. Brother Terry [was her last music teacher] in high school. She could accompany people very well, about as well as Mary Lou. So I have the two daughters [who] play the piano very well. I [am] thrilled every time I hear them play.

I forgot to tell you about Don and his singing. He is [a] very good singer and the girls accompany him. He has a beautiful solo voice. He is called on to sing in church quite a lot and especially at funerals.

FH:Is [Linda Lee] married?

HT:She is married and spends part of her time in 01:28:00[ while] her husband goes to school. They went back to and then came back [to ]. She had her first baby in , a little girl named Tammy.

FH:What is her husband’s name?

HT:She married Anthony Bruce Compton. She met him at BYU [ , , ] before he went on his [LDS] mission. She went to college for one year [before she] met him. His home was back in , but he flew from there to where she was working at the time for [a] college in 01:29:00. He flew down there and they planned their wedding date. [They] called us and said they were going to be married June 15, 1964. They have three babies now. They spent most of 1968 in . They had the two babies [at that time]. They have made so many trips back and forth to . The two babies were born in 01:30:00and he left when the second baby was about three weeks old to [go to] . He spent a year there. He was a corpsman in the [] Navy. Later, he was attached to the [] Marines. He was slightly wounded in the foot while he was over there. [When] they came back, she stayed with us while her husband was overseas at the same time Fay’s husband was over there. They were both in at the same time. One of my boys was there at the same time. I had [the] other boy, Eugene, flying back and forth. We had them all over there [nearly] at the same time. 01:31:00He came home and was alright. [The] wound [to his foot] healed up. You would not know anything was wrong with him. He went back to and worked for his father for about a year. Now he is going to to school and he is [studying] medicine at . They have had a little boy since they were back in . They have two children.

FH:The next [child] is [the] ninth [one].

HT:[The ninth child] is Chad Lamar Thacker. I get kind of mixed up here. He is a [very] swell guy. I cannot say anything more, 01:32:00but he is a wonderful boy. I think all of [my children] are. He never had any serious sickness. He [became] cross ways with his teachers in grade school and also in high school. He was quite discouraged in school and he would not study, but we love you anyway. He is the only boy we have had on a [LDS] mission. He filled a mission and we were very proud of him for that accomplishment. 01:33:00After a boy goes through high school and does not study until he gets to about the last year and a half, he does pretty good to go and fill an honorable mission and study a lot while he is there. He is our pride and joy for filling a mission.

He went to and filled a mission in the British Mission. President [Marion D.] Hanks was his mission president. He wrote a letter to us and he said, “Your son, , is an outstanding missionary. He is doing a wonderful job. He keeps the other elders on their toes. He is the leader and really works those boys. 01:34:00What we want is to keep them busy so they do not have time to get too homesick. He is an outstanding boy.” He also helped Brother Woodland who was there at the time on a work mission to build a church house in . He told him if he ever needed a job when he came back to Kamas to let him know and he would try [to] help him out. They thought a lot of him and he was honorably released. While he was there, they changed his mission president. That is when they divided the British Mission. I do not know whether it was the West British Mission. He was in the mission 01:35:00that President Robison took over. He worked under him for about three weeks and then was released to come home.

FH:Is he married?

HT:No. He is living in . He had been living with our daughter, Ann, in , but he [rented] an apartment recently and [has] moved to . He is working for [a] freeway construction company building freeway bridges and overpasses. He has a good job. 01:36:00[END OF RECORDING THREE.] HT:[Dallas Thacker is the tenth child.] He was an active little boy. They all [participated in] athletics in school. 01:37:00Before went to school he had quite a bad case of scarlet fever and had red measles [very bad]. He also had a little Bright’s disease. I guess it caused a [slight] heart murmur. He went on to high school and [became] active in the band, for a little while, playing the trumpet for Brother Terry. He could have done a little better [with] his grades, but he was excellent in his music. Brother Terry said he had the best chance to become 01:38:00a good trumpet player of any student he had ever had. He had the right lips for the horn and the right tone. For two years he took first place in the band and played the solos in their school music festivals. Mary Lou and Linda accompanied him. I wish we could have had him a little longer. He gave his horn up and will not play it at all. He said he did not learn it well enough to keep on with it. So he quit.

He [was] very active in wrestling. I think he out wrestled everybody that he 01:39:00took on. He was [very] good. It came to the last match and he [was] fouled up with the referees and judges and did not pass that match. He was [very] disappointed that he did not get to go to [the] state [tournament]. He specialized in auto mechanics. He has been working for Buck Wild at Taylor and Taylor Motors for about three and a half years now. He is a mechanic there. He is a good mechanic. He took [instruction] from GMC [General Motors Corporation] in . Taylor and Taylor is the [company] who put him through [school]. They gave him the chance to go. He is [very] good and is fast. He used to work at the service station 01:40:00before he went into mechanics.

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF] HT:He worked for one of the bishop’s counselors, [Harold] “Hank” Kilstrom. “Hank” liked him pretty well. He said he was about the fastest boy he ever had work for him in that line. He could get a job done faster than anyone he had ever had work for him. So he is just a natural mechanic I guess.

FH:There is a real need for this [type of work].

HT:But he [was] tired of that last winter. He wanted a little change. He wanted to get his muscles back in shape. I said, “I thought mechanics could do that alright.” He said, “No.” So he went over to the sawmill to work in Oakley []. He is working over there 01:41:00at the present time. I cannot recall that fellow’s name right now, but they like him. He has also worked on the pond for Jim Blazzard. Jim really liked him there. He kept him busy [and he was] better than any man he had had on the pond. He is a [very] strong boy. You can see the muscles bulging. [Laughter] He is like his father used to be.

He has met a girl we think the world of. He got [to] where he did not care about going to church. We worried about him. It broke our heart for a little while that way, but we have prayed for him and our prayers have been answered. We love him. 01:42:00He is going to [be] married in the 12 of this year.

FH:What is the girl’s name?

HT:Her name is Janet [Marie] Snapp. Her father is the bishop in Oakley, or has been. I do not know if he still is. She has brought [] around. What his mother could not do, she has done for him. [Laughter] Thank goodness! Thank goodness for girlfriends once in awhile and boyfriends. We love them all.

I forgot to tell you about . He was wounded in . He went to for a year and he was slightly wounded. But, there again, our prayers were answered. He was wounded in the arm and it never [gave] him any trouble. We are thankful and grateful 01:43:00to the Lord for all our blessings.

We are grateful that has seen the light. He is going to have to go and take a physical again for the third time for the Army on May 9, . They have rejected him until now. We do not know what will happen. We are praying that he does not have to leave and go to war.

FH:[Who] is [the] eleventh [child]?

HT:We have one more and his name is Claude Nile [Thacker]. Nile has had a little trouble with broken bones. He was a good healthy baby 01:44:00and a [very] good child. He has been all his life. He went through school, was a good student and [had] good marks. He took wrestling [instruction]. He likes to clown around a little. I think he [gets] it from his dad. He loves to sing and take part in church. He sings whenever he can. He used to [sing] in school. Then he [started] wrestling. He had all kinds of friends. He was always stepping out with this girl or that girl. Everybody is ’s friend. It seems like everybody is friends [with] and . 01:45:00They all have good friends. Everybody hollers hello at them and greets them whenever they see them.

All the boys love to hunt. They are crazy [about] hunting. They have practiced a lot with their guns so I do not worry too much about them anymore [when they] go hunting. I used to worry quite a bit when they were [younger]. The last two [boys] have taken rifle gun training course they had to take. They are pretty good with the guns and always get their deer. I do not think they ever came home without their deer. Nile has had lots of nice friends [and] everybody loves him.

FH:Where is he now?

HT:Right now he is in with 01:46:00[military] service. He was going to go to college. He was thinking of going into x-ray technician work. He thought he would get some [education] in college for it. He checked around and the only college that taught it or that he could take it from [was] Weber State College [Ogden, ]. He went up and signed in. He had a small scholarship. It was about $125.00. They accepted him, but he came back home. He could not find enough work to earn the money [needed] to get into college. At that time we had quite a lot of debt 01:47:00and had to get out [from it] so we could not help him much. If he could have worked and [received] enough [money] to start on, he could have kept himself in college.

He said, “Mama, I think I will join the [] Army and get it over with. I know it is coming and then I will come back and go to school.” So that is what he did — he enlisted. When he went down [to] enlist, they asked him all kinds of questions. I was there [with him]. They asked if he had ever been in trouble with the law. “No.” 01:48:00They asked him if he had ever had any trouble with several things. He said, “No. I have never even had a ticket [for] my driving.” They said, “That is the kind of a boy we want.” So they grabbed him right [then] for the Army.

was a delicate child in a way. I did not think he would pass [the physical] because it seemed like he always passed out quite easily. I think he was running too much at home, chasing around, dancing and being out about every night. He worked hard with his dad when he was going to [high] school. In the summer he worked for his dad two years straight and broke his arm. He had a 01:49:00bad break, but they took him in the Army anyway. I guess he has only passed out a couple of times since he went in the Army. [Laughter] FH:They will take good care of him.

HT:He went into the medics. [Laughter] He spent a year in . Then he came home and was here for another year. He spent a year up in , , at , and took an active part in church there. When he came home from he was set apart as an elder. He wanted to be before he went over, but they did not have permission to do it at that time. Later, they received permission from the president that they could, so he was made an elder and went up to . He was called for about 01:50:00the last seven months of his Army [time] to go to and that is where he is now. He will be released July 8 ; then he is going to go to BYU. I think he said he has been accepted. He is a good medic.

FH:Is he going to pursue medicine?

HT:He may. He said he thought he would like to be a technician.

FH:During the years you were raising your family, have you been able to keep active in the church?

HT:I was called to a stake mission after we lost our daughter. We were living in Kamas at that time. 01:51:00I was taking care of my family. I also had to stop for awhile and have another baby. [Laughter] Then I pursued religion again. They gave me permission to do that. President Moses Taylor called me to the stake mission.

FH:Did you enjoy missionary work?

HT:Yes, if I could have studied a little more and become better acquainted with it. But I had my family I had to take care of at night. Maybe if I had been a better worker I could have done a better job. I had some good companions. I finished my mission and raised my family. In these later years, I have been a Relief Society 01:52:00block teacher for a long time.

FH:What caused you to come to St. George?

HT:[We came because of] my husband’s health. He had to quit work and retire. I am retired now. I still work a little. I can work [when] I want to and it does not hurt anything. I have really enjoyed my life down here in St. George. It has been lovely. I will never forget living here in this little apartment and looking at the temple every night. I just love it. In the spring the flowers bloom. We do not have very many roses in Kamas, but it is lovely country up there.

FH:It is beautiful and green up there.

HT:Yes.

FH:Are you going back to Kamas right away?

HT:We are going back for our son’s wedding. 01:53:00[We want] to be with him for a little while before he is married or before he has to go in the Army. I hope he does not have to go, but I want all my sons to do justice to their country.

FH:If you could do the thing you really would like to do the most, what would it be?

HT:I would like to be able to visit my family once in awhile, go to their homes and visit with them. There is my daughter back east [and] I have never been back to visit [her].

FH:Would you like to get acquainted with their little children?

HT:I would like to and see the country. I love to travel. I hope I can settle in St. George or somewhere near a temple where I can go anytime I want to go [to] do temple work.

FH:Were you and your husband married 01:54:00in the temple?

HT:Yes. After we had five little girls and [were] on our way to move to , we went to the and had our own endowments and had our family sealed to us. I was never so relieved in my life. We have a lovely family. To hear [about the] little extras that they do [as] they are fulfilling their life’s work. It is a testimony to me because I have had a little struggle with them in our family life. Nothing serious, but it could have been if I had not been prayerful and humble. 01:55:00I think I have been humble.

FH:After a lifetime of experience you are well-qualified to give advice and counsel to your descendants and bear your testimony at the conclusion.

HT:I do have a testimony of the gospel. I know it is true. I have a hard time getting up in church anywhere and saying so. But at the same time I have it in my heart. [Emotional] My father taught me to be a good person. He said, “If you cannot be depended upon, you are not very much good to anybody.” I have always tried to teach dependability to my children and I have always tried to teach them 01:56:00to pray. We have not been very active in having family prayer, I am sorry to say, in our own home. But that is one thing I remembered when I was a child growing up — we had family prayer at home. It kind of bothers me and it has all my life [that] we have not had it so much.

My husband was raised different from me, but he is a good man. He told me one time he was afraid to pray and I think that is why it bothered him to pray. He also taught the children right from wrong. He has been a good father. He has been a good husband to me. [Emotional] I have tried to teach the children to love God, go to church, learn what there is there 01:57:00and try to live what they learn, to live good righteous lives and teach their own little family those things. [Emotional] Be tolerant and kind to everybody, especially to their own family, to their mates and their brothers and sisters. Tolerance, dependability, kindness and humility are about the main things. And [to] be prayerful in all things. I think that is about all I have to say.

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF] HT:I thank my Heavenly Father for all His many blessings, for the good life I have had, for the good parents I had and that I have been able to be a citizen of this country. [Emotional] 01:58:00[END OF RECORDING FOUR. END OF INTERVIEW.]