Interview with John Henry Zohner

John Henry Zohner was interviewed on February 22, 1969 at the Shurtleff Dairy Farm in the St. George Fields next to the Virgin River, Washington County, Utah by Fielding H. Harris, a representative of the Voices of Remembrance Foundation. He related his personal history of living in various parts of Switzerland, Idaho, Utah and Nevada.

FH:Would you please give your full name?

JZ:[My name is] John Henry Zohner.

FH:Would you pronounce that in your Swiss [German] language?

JZ:Yes, Johan Henrich Zohner. [In Switzerland it was spelled Zahner. When John Henry came to the United States the teachers convinced him it should be spelled Zohner. So that is what they did rather than fight it.]

FH:In English it is John Henry Zohner.

JZ:Yes. All my friends know me by John Henry.

FH:When were you born?

JZ:I was born July 4, 1896.

FH:Where were you born?

JZ:[I was born] in Wattwil, [the municipality of Toggenburg in the canton of St. Gallen in] Switzerland.

FH:[What was] your father's name?

JZ:His name was Gottlieb Zohner.

FH:Is that [spelled] G-O-T-T-L-I-E-B?

JZ:Yes.

FH:What was your mother's [full] name?

JZ:Her name was Suzanna (Rudlinger) [Zohner].

FH:What do you remember from when you were a [young] child in Switzerland?

JZ:I can remember my mother sent me to get some [items] at the store in Wattwil. 00:02:00It was wintertime and on the way back I decided to catch a ride on the sleigh. I missed the sleigh and fell off. The sleigh dragged me for quite a ways before the driver discovered what had happened.

FH:Were you injured?

JZ:I was unconscious. When I came to, I was home in bed. That is the first [memory] I remember. We all worked on the farm. We would do whatever we were told.

FH:[Did] your father have a farm?

JZ: Yes. Would you like me to tell how he made his living?

FH:Yes.

JZ:He made his living [from] his dairy farm. He had all the way from ten to fifteen cows. He milked them and carried the milk to market on his back. The hay was all cut by hand and carried on his back. [Everything] was all done by hand.

FH:On this farm did you have a garden?

JZ:I think we did. I don't remember exactly. I imagine they did because they wouldn't buy [food]. I imagine they used their own vegetables..

FH:They [grew] what they ate.

JZ:Yes, mostly.

FH:Did your parents hear the gospel over in Switzerland?

JZ:Yes. [There] they became acquainted with the gospel. My mother was in America 00:04:00before she was married [for] about three years. She and [my] father had some kind of a falling out during [their] courtship. She had three brothers and one sister over in America already, so she came over to be with them.

FH:Where were they in America?

JZ:[They were] in St. Louis, Illinois. That is as near as I can tell you.

FH:[Was it in] East St. Louis, Illinois? That is right across the river from St. Louis, Missouri.

JZ:Yes.

FH:Did she go back to Switzerland?

JZ:Yes. She went back to Switzerland and married [my] father.

FH:Did all of your family become members of the Mormon Church [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints] in Switzerland?

JZ:All [who] were born there, yes.

FH:All of them that were old enough.

JZ:Yes. They were all baptized if they were old enough.

FH:Do you know anything about the missionary [who] brought the gospel to your folks?

JZ:Yes. I know at least two [of them]. They were both named Hirschi. One was from Salem, Idaho and the other one was from up here at Rockville [Washington County, Utah]. [The] one from Rockville was a great big heavy-set fellow and the other one was kind of a slim fellow.

FH:Were they Mormon missionaries in Switzerland?

JZ:Yes. The first one [who] came to us always did the talking and preaching. This other fellow would play with us [children] and tell stories. He was great to tell a bear story. He would get it all in and then he would let out a great big bear yell. [Laughter]

FH:Did you have some [education] in Switzerland?

JZ:Yes. I went to school for three years there.

FH:Do you remember that?

JZ:Yes. I remember going to school.

FH:Were they good schools?

JZ:I couldn't tell you that [whether] it was good or bad. I learned to read. [Inaudible]

FH:[Did] you come to America and have to learn all over again?

JZ:Yes. My twin sister [Susette] held on to it. She could read and write [the language] after she came to America. I don't know whether she could before she died or not. She could at the time.

FH:Were you baptized into the church in Switzerland?

JZ:Yes.

FH:Were some of your brothers and sisters also [baptized]?

JZ:About four of them [were] besides me.

FH:In your family there was a peculiar [event] ─ you had some twins. How many [sets of] twins?

JZ:There were three pairs of twins, three boys and three girls. I take it back. The last two twins were two boys. There were six boys in the family and six girls.

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF]

FH:How old were you when you came to America?

JZ:I was just becoming ten [years of age].

FH:Can you remember that trip?

JZ:[Fairly] well, yes. I remember when we left there. When we found out we were going to America, they told us we were probably going to be used as animals and [would] have to work and pull plows.

FH:Did they have you scared?

JZ:Yes, they did. That didn't discourage my folks any. Of course, we went 00:08:00because our folks did.

FH:They knew better.

JZ:Yes, they knew better.

FH:Was there any kind of a party when you left?

JZ:I can't remember. The only thing I can remember about [the trip] is [that] when we went to go we all carried our luggage [that] we were going to use on the trip, the clothing we had to wear, in our hand.

FH:Did each one carry his own luggage?

JZ:Yes.

FH:Was that a long trip?

JZ:Yes. Anyway, when we [went] past the school the whole school was out to bid us goodbye. Some made fun [of us]. They said, "There go the people to America to 00:09:00be used as horses and cows." [Laughter] I remember that.

FH:Did you feel scared about that?

JZ:I [don't] remember if I did. I don't think I did. I was too excited about the trip!

FH:[Did] you believe your parents?

JZ:Yes.

FH:Where did you sail from? [He sailed from Antwerp, Belgium on May 19, 1906.]

JZ:From [inaudible].

FH:Was it quite a large ship? [The SS Vaderland.]

JZ:It was one of the largest ships on the ocean at the time. It was what they called the Great American ship.

FH:Was your trip across the ocean a pleasant one?

JZ:We all held up [fairly] good. My mother was quite sick because she was pregnant with the last pair of twins. We didn't know for a time or two whether she was going to carry through or not.

FH:Did she make it alright?

JZ:Yes. There were missionaries on the boat with us and they administered to her a time or two and she [inaudible]. That is what helped.

FH:Did you land in New York [City, New York]?

JZ:Yes, we landed in New York [City].

FH:Do you remember that?

JZ:I remember we had to go to the custom place. We were back in jail for a few hours until they [were] ready to receive us and examine our luggage. We went from there to a restaurant to eat our dinner. On the ship we hadn't had much meat. I put sugar on the roast beef that they [served]. [Laughter] I always did like sugar. They made fun of me because I put sugar on the meat. Then we went 00:11:00from there onto a ferry boat. We went from the office where we were interviewed. When we couldn't walk, we went in carts pulled by horses. [Inaudible] I know we [were] on this ferry boat. All [of] our luggage was put on this cart. I don't know whether we walked, but I know this cart took all of the luggage.

Then we [went] on a train out to the ferry boat. That is the first time I [was] seasick was on the ferry boat. I and my one twin sister older than me. I never 00:12:00[was] seasick [when] crossing the ocean. Then we both [were] sick on this ferry boat. [Laughter] They all made fun of us because we [were] sick on the ferry boat.

FH:What did you think of America when you saw it?

JZ:We thought it was alright. Of course, I can't express exactly how we did feel.

FH:Was it all [fairly] big and new?

JZ:Yes it was. We went to this man's place in Salem [Idaho] and he rented a farm to my father.

FH:Did you come by train from New York to Salem, Idaho?

JZ:Yes, to Salem, Idaho.

FH:Is this where one of the missionaries was?

JZ:Yes, by the name of [David] Hirschi.

FH:Did you go to his place when you [arrived] there?

JZ:Yes. He knew we were coming and came and met us at the train. We were only at 00:13:00his place for about maybe a week. Then we got his farm. The people who were renting the farm moved out and we moved into the house.

FH:Good. Did your father go right to work farming?

JZ:Yes. He only ran the place one year. I guess he didn't make much [money]. He went to work at the sugar factory that winter. He discovered that he could make more money working for wages than he could on the farm when he learned how. After he worked at the sugar factory for about three years, he decided that that wasn't good either, because they only had work in the wintertime. He had to work in the summer. He had a hard time making a living for us, I guess.

We all worked when we could. My oldest brother [Johan Gottlieb] was fourteen or fifteen [years old] by that time. Somebody told him if he would herd the town 00:14:00cows they would give him so much a head. He decided to do that. He bought a horse and a saddle. The first month we didn't have so many [cows], but after they found out we were taking care of them good we [had] so many that three of us boys helped. We would deliver them at night and get them in the morning [and] milk them in different places. That is how he helped the family. He turned the money in to the family. I think the last year we did it we had around seventy-five head. I don't remember exactly [what] they [received for a] head. I don't think it was over $1.00 a month for a head.

My twin sister [had] work helping in different places. She was making money long before I was.

FH:During those years, did you go to church?

JZ:Yes. We always went to church.

FH:Did you go to Sunday school, Sacrament meetings and Priesthood meeting?

JZ:[It was] in Rexburg, Idaho [and] the bishop's name was Riggs. He was a club-footed fellow. He lost his feet in the frost, I think. We lost one of the twins [Wilhelm] while we were living there. Was it the year we left there or the year before? I guess it was the year before because he was just a little over a year old when he died.

FH:Is this [the] one [who] was born just [after] your mother [came] over here?

JZ:Yes, he was born in America. [Do] you want my brother's and sister's names?

FH:Yes, [but] first would you tell about your father?

JZ:He was always a good worker. He was a good provider. He always worked hard. 00:17:00Mother was always the business [person]. She took care of the business because she could [speak] the language [fairly] well because she had been in America before they [were] married. She picked it up [fairly] fast again the second time [she came here]. That made it helpful. I don't ever remember her going off to work anywhere. She took in washing. [Inaudible].

FH:Did your father bring in the money and she handled it?

JZ:Yes. If there was anything bought, she usually bought it. There was one interesting [story that] I wanted to tell you. In Switzerland, my mother supplied the grain for all the chickens they used for the animals in the community there. She would order a carload [of grain] every fall and every spring.

FH:[Was] she what they would call a feed store over here?

JZ:They didn't have a store. They would notify all the people and they would get it right off the car. She did all of the handling. I guess they had to have had [fairly] good credit at the bank because they had to have so much money to bring it in. It had to be paid for, I imagine, before it was shipped. It came from Germany, of course. That was the way they made part of the living in Switzerland and then father made [inaudible].

FH:Was Switzerland quite mountainous?

JZ:Yes. Where we were they had to do all the work by hand. They couldn't get in the machinery. It was [too] steep to handle a machine. Some of [the land] was timber.

FH:Did you have cows for milk?

JZ:Yes. The last two or three years he leased or owned some country [land] in the Alps. He would take his cattle up there in the summertime to graze and to milk. He did milk up there, too. It was quite novel. These people had done that because they would have to trail them quite a ways. They would just make a parade out of it. The cows would go in pairs or follow one another and the lead cows would have big bells on them. Some [of the bells] were brass. I remember one great big bell on the cow we had. The next one had a big silver bell. We brought that [bell] to America. My brother [Jacob "Jake"] in Idaho still has it.

FH:Did your folks go through the temple over here?

JZ:Yes. They went through the [Salt Lake] Temple with most all the children except two. It was in 1916.

FH:What are the names of your brothers and sisters?

JZ:The oldest one was named Johann Gottlieb [Zohner]. The next one was Rachel [Regula in Switzerland, Zohner]. The next was a pair of twins named Johann [John] Melchoir [Zohner] and [Rosa] "Rosie" [Zohner]. She married [George 00:21:00Bogdanovich] and raised a family. Her twin, this brother of mine, never married. Neither did my oldest brother [Johann Gottlieb]. He never married. There is my twin sister and me. Her name is Susette [Zohner]. She is named after my mother 00:22:00[and married Martin Lampe]. Then comes [Jacob] "Jake" [Zohner]. [He married Polly Christine Miller.]

FH:Is that "Jake" or Jacob?

JZ:Jacob is the way we called him. The next one is a girl, Lydia [Zohner]. She is a great big girl all the time. She has always worked more on the farm than she did in the house. She married [David Schiers]. She ran the farm for dad before my mother died. She drove cows and plowed. She married and raised a big family [of] fourteen children. She is still living. She lost her first child 00:23:00just last summer. She was a grandmother, this child that they lost.

The next one is [Frida Verena] Verna [Zohner]. She lives in Barstow, California. She married out of the church, but she likes to be in church all the time. She never has been able to get her husband [Wilbur Lawson] converted.

FH:Maybe she will sometime.

JZ:She will, I think, if she is faithful. He has quit his smoking and has quit his drinking. He is a [very] good-hearted man. There is nothing he won't do for you. I could borrow money anytime I wanted to and he would never ask for any security. Any amount I wanted he would give it to me. He loaned money to my 00:24:00sister, this one I was telling [about who] did all the work. Her family [was] in trouble and she needed $3,000.00 [to] $5,000.00. They got it from him.

Next were the twins [who] were born in Salem, Idaho. [They are] named Ulrich [Zohner] and [Wilhelm] "Willie" [Zohner]. "Willie" is the one [who] died when he was a little over a year old. Ulrich died in 1948. No, he died in 1955. He was forty-eight years old.

FH:Did he marry?

JZ:[Ulrich] married [Ferl Davis], but [they] only had two children. My youngest sister was born up in what they call Teton Basin [Idaho]. They called her 00:25:00Elsbeth.or Elizabeth. We called her "Betty." She has been married twice. She married out of the church both times, but she [was able to get] her last husband to join the church. [She is married to Pat O'nion.] [She went by Elizabeth, but was called "Betty."]

FH:Does she have a family?

JZ:Yes. They have two boys. She is a receptionist at the temple in Oakland [California]. She is doing [very well], but he still isn't active like he should be.

FH:Maybe that will change.

JZ:It might. I hope it does. He is a [United States] Navy man. He has had too much of that wild life.

FH:What do you remember about your mother?

JZ:Mother was always a hard worker. She was high strung [and very] nervous. Everything upset her easily. I don't know how she ever got through raising the big family she did. They managed [well], I guess. They couldn't have raised a family if they didn't. She died when she was fifty-six years old in 1918.

FH:Was the family all [fairly young]?

JZ:The youngest one [girl] was seven years old. The youngest boy was nine years 00:27:00old. We sort of turned to ourselves after mother died. My youngest sister [Elizabeth] and another sister [probably Rosa] went to Montana to stay with my twin sister [Susette]. For a year or two they were up there. By that time, they were old enough to get out and get jobs and work for themselves.

FH:How much [education] did you have?

JZ:To tell the truth about it, I went to school until I was practically twenty years old. But I never did learn anything in school. I guess I just didn't take [an] interest in it. I always had my mind on horses or things I could do outside. I just didn't have the interest and didn't realize what I was missing.

FH:Tell about the [education that] you [did] have.

JZ:I went to elementary school in Rexburg. We went to school in Salem, too, the first year. Then we went to school in Rexburg [for] two years, I am [fairly] sure. I think I missed a year or so, one year anyhow. I missed the last part of the fourth year [grade]. My father went up to Teton Basin and took up a homestead. After he [was] laid off at the sugar factory along about February, he decided to go up there and chop timber enough to build a house. After he had been up there for a month or so, mother [was] worried. She hadn't heard from 00:29:00him. She was afraid maybe something happened to him. She sent me up there to see what was wrong and to stay with him.

FH:How old were you?

JZ:I was fourteen years old. I had to sort of what you call hitchhike. I caught rides with freighters. I didn't know the way [as] I had never been up there before. But I told them where I wanted to go and they helped [me].

FH:Did you find him alright?

JZ:I found him alright.

FH:Did the family go out to Teton Basin?

JZ:Yes, the next spring they all moved out. That is where my youngest sister [Elizabeth "Betty"] was born. [Inaudible]

FH:Did you have any more [education] than what you [received] in Rexburg?

JZ:Yes, we went to school every winter after that. We wouldn't go until they 00:30:00made us go in the fall. [We would stay out] as long as dad would keep us working. He was anxious for us to work and we were anxious to stay out! [Laughter] Of course, unless it [was] cold and something we didn't want to do, then we would

tell [him that] we wanted to go to school. Finally, the teachers kind of put their foot down and told us we had to come to school. That is the way it was with me. My younger brother [Jacob] was a little smarter than I was. He wanted to go to school. He learned fast and so did all of those younger than I. My twin sister picked it up [fairly] well. I think she [went] through the eighth grade alright. I don't think I could have passed a fourth-grade examination. I went to the Rexburg Academy.

[He would have been attending in about 1910. The academy in Rexburg, Idaho was known as the Ricks Academy from 1902 to 1917.]

I took a mid-winter course there. I began to realize then that I should have at 00:31:00least learned how to read and write. They had winter courses for the foreign people to come in [and] I took one of those courses. [A] second cousin of mine [went with me]. He had just only been there a year or so. We decided to take this course.

FH:Did that help you?

JZ:It did, but they didn't have one of those courses. They advised me to take a missionary course. That way I could get my language along with it which would help me [inaudible]. That was the first I began to realize what the gospel was about and why we were called Mormons.

FH:Were you ordained in the Aaronic Priesthood?

JZ:Yes, I was ordained a priest. That was the only ordination I can remember. I don't know what my record shows.

FH:Did you later become an elder?

JZ:I was ordained an elder in Cedar City [Iron County, Utah]. I was in the Kanarra [Kanarraville] Ward.

FH:[Why did] you come down to Cedar City?

JZ:After my mother, died my father went on a [LDS] mission. He was going to 00:34:00Switzerland, but his health wasn't good enough [and] he couldn't get a passport. So [the church] sent him to Milwaukee [Wisconsin], somewhere back east. But it was too cold for him there and --

[END OF TAPE ONE -- SIDE ONE]

JZ:-- he came down with rheumatism. It [was] so bad he [was] laid up in bed. So the church advised him to [go] to California or else Dixie [in Washington County, Utah]. He chose to come to Dixie. He landed in Santa Clary [Clara, Washington County, Utah] because they told him there were all Swiss people there. He stayed there with some of the Stuckis or he [became] acquainted with the Stuckis. He found out that there was [a] widow with an orphan [who] needed some work done there. [She became] was his second wife. That is how I got [inaudible].

FH:What was her name?

JZ:Her name was Barbara [Rosina] Tobler. Her maiden name was Stucki. She was a widow with eight children.

FH:[Did] your father take on another family?

JZ:He did. Then he brought two of his youngest children [Ulrich and Elsbeth "Betty"] down to live with them until they didn't want to be there. They [were] old enough and wanted to get off working on their own. She was a [very] good stepmother. Of course, they didn't think so. They had a lot of things come up. I don't think there was ever a bit of stepmothering in it. She was [very] good. Father was hard to get along with, too. He had his odd ways. She was patient and 00:36:00did everything for him. He lived to be almost eighty-six years old. He lacked a month being eighty-six years old. He didn't have any memory at all. He couldn't even remember to go to the bathroom. They had to put diapers on him the last year or two.

FH:Where did you live after he came down to Santa Clara?

JZ:They lived in Washington [City, Washington County, Utah]. He sold his property and farm to one of my brothers-in-law [David Schiers], [who] married 00:37:00the girl [Lydia] who took care of the farm all the time. But they only had [the farm] a year and they [were] behind on payments. They didn't make a payment. They had a hard wind and ran out of hay. He had to come up and borrow money to buy hay for them and [to] feed them. So [my father] just took the property back. Her husband wouldn't stay on the farm and work. He [had] a job hauling milk and spent most of his time in the pool hall. He could have had his job and still do work there, but he [wouldn't]. He spent all day over [at] the pool hall and wasn't doing his work. Anyway, [my father] took the farm back and [asked] me to run it.

My younger brother [Jacob] had a good place, but he wanted to get something bigger and so he [asked] him to come down here and see if he could find 00:38:00something down here he wanted. But he couldn't find anything. Anyway, his son [was] sick and he had to [go] back before he [could] see everything he wanted. But he didn't think he wanted to come down here, so dad made a deal with him to sell it and sell the farm to him. It would be his farm. He was married and he knew he could take care of it. So he sold to him and, of course, that let me out. He had me come down here and said he would get me a place down here.

I came down here and he took me out here on the Arizona Strip. When we were out there [it was] just after they had had all the summer rain and everything was green out there. It looked pretty. It looked just like a meadow. I thought I had fallen into a gold mine! So I came down here and my other brother [John] just 00:39:00older than me [who] was a twin came down. We were going to pick out postings [homesteads] out there. When we [were] out there, we found out we couldn't pick up a homestead because land hadn't been surveyed. We only stayed there for about three years. In fact, I didn't stay even at all. I put in the first crop and then ran off herding sheep. I went to herding sheep. My father and my brother raised some corn there for a year or two and sold it.

FH:Did you ever have any fun when you were growing up?

JZ:Yes, I liked to dance. I went to dances wherever I could. Up there I would ride for thirty miles to go to a dance. I remember one night we had quite a 00:40:00storm somewhere up in the mountain and I had to go through a big wash. I couldn't get this mare to go through there because she felt the danger. I couldn't get her to go across. I went to one of the places [farms] there and they said there was a place above there. They were going to go to the dance, too. It was only a year or so afterwards [that] one of the [fellows] came in from sheepherding and came to the same wash and his horse didn't want to go. He [thought] he knew better and he made the horse go in there and they both drowned. My horse was [inaudible] and his horse wasn't! He made it go so that is 00:41:00all the horse could do.

I herded sheep then for about three years. Then I rented a farm in Kanarra [Kanarraville, Iron County] Utah.

FH:When did you meet the girl who was to be your wife?

JZ:I didn't meet her until 1930. It was later on. I stayed in Kanarra and farmed and was active in church there. That is where I was ordained an elder. I was a Sunday school superintendent there. I liked it [fairly] good there.

The fellow I was renting from never signed a lease. We just had a verbal agreement. In the fall, he would give me what he wanted to and I would take what I could get because we had no agreement. I quit that after three years. The 00:42:00first year I rented another farm. But it was subject to sale and I only had it about three months and they sold it. But I worked there for that summer and that fall I went down to Las Vegas [Nevada] and worked. I stayed with my sister [Susette] down there. That was in 1927.

FH:What kind of work did you get in Las Vegas?

JZ:Mostly it was building houses, construction work. I only stayed there that winter. I came back up and went to herding sheep the next spring. I herded sheep for a couple of years. That is when I met my wife's father. I was working with 00:43:00the same man, my wife's father, David William Lemmon. He came to help lamb for the same man. I met most of the family, but I didn't meet my wife until I hired out to him. He was a sawmill man. He worked in the sawmill.

FH:What was his name?

JZ:His name was David [William] Lemmon. I hired out to him to work in his saw- mill.

FH:Where was the sawmill located?

JZ:The sawmill at the time was up at what they call Clear Creek. It is a little east of the Zion Ledges [in Washington County, Utah]. They owned a sawmill that was up on the Zion Ledges where the cable came down to the ground. They ran the first sawmill and ran the lumber down that cable. Then they had two [inaudible]. 00:44:00[Inaudible] That was all they did. He would herd sheep in the wintertime when he could get a job. In summertime he worked at the sawmill.

FH:Did you like to work at the sawmill?

JZ:Yes, I liked to work at the sawmill, but it seemed like they just couldn't make ends meet. They [were] behind on paying me so I felt like I could do better some- place else. I went off back to herding sheep

FH:How much money did they pay you for herding sheep?

JZ:At that time, they were only paying about $60.00 [a month].

FH:[Was that] $60.00 and room and board?

JZ:Sometimes [it would be] only $40.00. Before that, I had [received] as high as 00:45:00$100.00 [a month]. But they weren't doing lambing or [inaudible]. But the average wage was about $60.00.

FH:Was it long after this that you met your-wife-to be?

JZ:I met my wife [Nina (Lemmon) Zohner] when I went to work at the sawmill. We [were] married that year. Our courtship was only about three months.

FH:It didn't take you long to know she was the right one.

JZ:No, I can't exactly say that! I felt I was getting to the age where I couldn't be very choosy. She appeared to be the kind of woman that a person should have, live with and [who] would take care of my children. I think I love 00:46:00her more now than I did then.

FH:Has it grown with the years?

JZ:Yes, it has grown with the years. I prayed about getting married a lot of times and wondered why I hadn't met the person I should marry and [inaudible]. I felt that I was as near to being in love as I could be so I married [her].

FH:[Did] she stay with you at the sawmill?

JZ:She worked at the sawmill.

FH:What did she do when you [were] herding sheep?

JZ:After we [were] married, when I was out herding sheep she was always home. The first year or two I rented a home. Then I built one.

FH:Where was this?

JZ:Here in St. George. I have a home here in St. George now. I would go out and work and she would be at home. That is the trouble. I think we had just been apart too much to really get along with one another. Not that we don't care for one another. I care for her and I am [fairly] sure she does for me. But it seemed like our ways were just all different. We just never had been locked together to get used to one another. It seems like we feel better apart than we do when we are together. My desire is to have her come back and live here. She doesn't have the desire to go to the temple like I do. [Inaudible]

FH:Were you married in the temple?

JZ:Yes, we were married in the St. George Temple.

[John Henry and Nina (Lemmon) Zohner were married November 7, 1930 in the St. George Temple, Washington County, Utah.]

FH:How many children did you have?

JZ:[We had] six [children].

FH:Tell their names and what has happened to them.

JZ:The oldest one was named Dahl [Zohner]. He has been a [fairly] active fellow all during his life. He was active in church and in sports. He was one of the main basketball players in St. George at one time. He was [very] good in school all the time. He had a good interest and had no trouble that I know of. Of course, there are things that happened that I don't know [about] because I was away all of the time. During World War II, I moved away [to] Caliente [Nevada]. But all the children did [well] in school. [All of the children received college degrees except Ruth Zohner.]

FH:Where did he go to college?

JZ:He went here to [Dixie] College. Then he went to [Utah State] College in Logan [Cache County, Utah]. That was after he filled a [LDS] mission and after he had been in the [United States] Army. He went [to] the Spanish-American Mission.

He went in the army and then he spent two years on a mission. His army [service] was in Korea.

FH:Did he get married?

JZ:Yes, he married an Alldredge girl. Do you know of Irvin Alldredge?

FH:Yes.

JZ:He married one of his daughters. She [Laverne (Alldredge) Zohner] is a [very] nice woman.

FH:Where do they live?

JZ:They live in Moab [Grand County] Utah. He is a [United States Forest] Ranger. That is why he went to college. He [was more] interested in that and then he was working for his grandpa in the sawmill. He thought he would like to be a ranger. 00:50:00Guy Rencher came there to spot timber for him and he decided he would like [to do] that. He took it up and [it has] made good [for] him.

FH:Does he have a family?

JZ:Yes. They have a family of seven children. [My] second one is Jerry [Zohner]. He [had] a wild life. We almost lost him two or three times when he was just a young [boy]. He would get into things. The first time, I was logging. I was home for the summer and was logging. He was just barely learning to walk. I had him with me in the truck. I tried to get him to stay in the truck and he wouldn't stay so I sent him off to [stay] on a log. I went on over to unload my log. Just 00:51:00before I let go of the chain, I looked to see where he was, and while I was looking, the chain slipped away from me and the log rolled off. He was right in front of it. The only thing that saved him was a great big knot on both of the logs [that] didn't let the logs come together. That was the only thing that saved him. It was kind of nasty. He bruised his head. He was unconscious when I picked him up. But he didn't break anything. It kind of injured his head, bruised it and knocked him out.

The next year or so, he was around the sawmill. While his grandpa was sharpening the saw, he climbed on the elevator. The elevator [went up] this high and it dropped him. There he was down there. He couldn't get off. The pedal took all the hide off him. He started screaming when the pedal started to hit. That is when I saw him. It took all the hide off him.

I don't know if he ever had any more accidents to speak of until he [was] in the police department. He was a policeman in Las Vegas. He was run over by a truck two different times [while he was a] crossing guard [for] the children going across the street. A truck came along and a car and ran over him twice. Then last summer he [was] shot. [Inaudible] We thought for sure we were going to lose him then. He was out for three weeks and [then] went back to work.

FH:Did he get married? [He married Marie (Littlefield) Zohner.]

JZ:He is married [and] has five children, but he is not too active in church.

FH:Is he still living in Las Vegas?

JZ:He has a nice home there. They all have better homes than I ever hope to have. They are all doing well. The next one is Ruth [Zohner]. She lives in Veyo [Washington County, Utah]. She married a fellow by the name of [Lloyd] Leavitt from St. George. She wasn't quite sixteen [years old] when she married. She married in September and was sixteen [years old] in November. They have nine children now.

FH:Are they active in the church?

JZ:Yes. He is the ward clerk [and] has been all the time. She is in the Mutual [Improvement Association]. They are doing [very] good for the amount of children they have. He is not too speedy with a lot of things. He can't get one thing [inaudible], but I think he has settled down now. I think they are doing right.

My youngest son [David Zohner] works for the [United States] Government. He works at [inaudible] Nevada in atomic energy work. He is married and has one child. His wife [Martha (Lewis) Zohner] is from up in Washington. I can't tell you what her name is now. I have heard it, too, but I can't think of it. She is a [very] nice woman and has joined the church now.

My next daughter [Elna (Zohner) Jones] is [very] good. She is smart [and very] active all the time. Well, she is not too active now, but she married out of the church. She can't get her husband [Eugene Jones] to join. I would say a lot of 00:55:00it is her fault because she is not doing what she should.

FH:Maybe that will change.

JZ:That will change. She is too interested in sporting around, living and taking care of her family. I think she found a good one [husband]. He is a good honest [fellow].

FH:How many children does she have?

JZ:She only has two so far. I am afraid she won't have any more. She has a blood condition [and] the doctor tells her she dare not have any more. She has two girls and they are pretty little girls and smart as a whip.

FH:Is that all [of your] children?

JZ:No. There is one more. There is another daughter, the youngest daughter [Tonia (Zohner) Hatchett]. She married out of the church, too. She married a fellow [Terry Hatchett] from Colorado. They are living in [Las] Vegas and he is 00:56:00still in [military] service. She has been working in the police department. She is remarkable in the police department.

FH:Are they getting along good?

JZ:They are getting along fine.

FH:Do they have any children?

JZ:Yes. They have one child.

FH:What have you been doing the last few years?

JZ:After I quit the sawmill and the sheep herding, I went to [work on] the railroad when World War II started. In fact, when I first started in, I was herding sheep for some fellows in Cedar City, but in the wintertime they didn't have any work for me. I had worked on the WPA [Works Progress Administration] during the winter. But this time I got a job through the Utah [National] Parks 00:57:00as a caretaker out at Grand Canyon [National Park]. I went to work for them.

FH:Did you enjoy that work?

JZ:Yes. I enjoyed it [fairly well]. I had a companion out there. Stewart was out there. In fact there were three of us. The ranger was out there at that time and he used about an hour and a half at the most. But we [had] a telephone. We could phone one another. We wouldn't need to talk or see one another.

FH:That is beautiful country out there.

JZ:Yes. I spent that winter there. The next year they put me to work as a utility man and I worked for them all that summer. That was the first year the war broke out. I worked as a utility man. Then I went back and worked as a caretaker in Zion [National Park] the next winter. They closed Sun Valley 00:58:00[Idaho] down and the fellow [who] was up at Sun Valley and some people employed up there had to have work. They had a lot of seniority so they came down and took my place. I [was] bumped. But they got me a job on the railroad as a tunnel guard on this side of Caliente up in the canyon there. They were afraid somebody might blow it up. It was during the war. I was tunnel guard from December until May. Then I went into the round house [and] worked. My first job was what they call the [inaudible]. I didn't think I would be there maybe over a year, but I 00:59:00was there for twelve years. I did all kinds of work there.

The [children] got a kick out of it, too. They came out and saw me up there and I would show them the engine and show them the round table, what they called the turn table. Then they would come back and tell big stories in school. The [other children] all figured they were making them up. One day the teacher got after my wife. She said, "You ought to train your children not to tell so many stories. I can't keep these other [children] from doing the same thing." She said, "I don't think they are telling you stories. What makes you think they are telling stories? Their father works on the railroad and they go up there and see him and they see all those things." [Laughter]

The last summer I took the girls [Elna and Tonia] up into Idaho and then we [went] to Driggs, Idaho. I got off and they wanted to get up on the engine side. So I asked the engineers if they would let us ride up on the engine from there up to Victor; that was the end of the line. They said, "Yes." The older one of the two [sat] right on the engineer's lap and he told her he would [teach] her how to run this [train]. [Laughter] He was having a big time. He let her blow the whistle. [Inaudible] Of course, he didn't let her handle the throttles. She sure got a kick out of that. It is good to get out of the city. They were still going to school then. They wrote a big story about it. The first time she had to 01:01:00write an essay or something in school, she [inaudible]. [Inaudible]

FH:How long has it been since you quit working for the railroad?

JZ:I quit working for the railroad in 1961.

FH:What have you done since then?

JZ:Since then, I was a custodian [for] one of the chapels in Las Vegas for over three years. Then I was a school crossing [guard] the last year I was there. Since then, I have been up here.

FH:What are you doing here now?

JZ:I worked on the [Sherill] Stucki fruit farm for two and a half years until last summer. They kind of ran out of water there and they couldn't keep things going anymore. They decided to hold up on the project until this Dixie project gets going.

FH:It looks like that won't be too long.

JZ:I hope not. It should go through.

FH:Now are you working here on the dairy farm?

JZ:I am sort of a utility man. I do a lot of utility work. I don't milk cows anymore. I work when I want to and when I don't want to work, I don't work.

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FH:This is a [fairly] good set up for you then. It is five minutes to two.

JZ:It is? I will go a little later then. I didn't know you were going to do this. I would have told him not to look for me.

FH:I told you [it would take] about two hours.

JZ:I couldn't imagine what you were getting this for, but I told him I wouldn't be back.

FH:We are just about [through] now. Your clock says ten to two.

JZ:I haven't had dinner. I was just going to sit down to eat when you came. But I am glad you came. I am willing to sacrifice a dinner. This might be something I would never get done.

FH:You have had a lot of wonderful experience in life, a variety of things.

JZ:There was one experience I should have told you that happened to me in Idaho the same year my mother died. I was out on the farm, way out in the western part of Idaho. I was partners with a fellow out there. He left me alone one time. He went into town and left me home to haul some hay. I had a team that was fat and foxy and we just waited for him. He told me I better not use them alone. I figured they were as much mine as his. He didn't tell me to turn them out because they would run off. I couldn't see any sense running the horse out in the field and letting these [inaudible] stay in the barn. So I hooked these up [inaudible] as far as that is concerned. Like I say, they were just foxy and that. I was hauling hay and what you call trailing wagons, one wagon behind 01:04:00another one.

The second trip that I made, the trailer tongue came unhooked [while] turning. I just put my brake on, tied my lines around the brake and got down to see. When 01:05:00you stop, you put on your brakes and put your lines around the brake. I got down to look under [the wagon] to see what was the matter. Something scared the horses at that time and me not trusting them I [became] excited and ran up the side to grab them. As I grabbed them that made them move worse [and] they threw me right against the post. The wagon came along and hit my leg and broke my left leg. [The horses] took off, but they didn't get far, just went over a little 01:06:00hill. The trail came to a rock and they couldn't stop and they couldn't do anything.

[END OF TAPE ONE -- SIDE TWO]

FH:Did you have a broken leg?

JZ:I had a broken leg. I crawled into the house. It was cold, the fall of the year [in] November just before Thanksgiving. It was cold. As it happened, I 01:07:00[had] put a lot of coal in the stove in the morning. I [went] in the house and [laid] on the bed, but I couldn't get [my] broken leg onto the bed. I covered up. I didn't know when my partner and his wife would get there, whether they would come that night or not. Anyway, they came along about five o'clock. They saw something was wrong [because] they could see the tracks of the trailer tongue. They came in the house and I was lying on the bed. My bed was right in the kitchen. There was another bedroom. I was asleep until they opened the door and then I woke up. They wanted to know what the matter was and I told them what 01:08:00happened. We were fifty miles from the nearest doctor. We had to go in the car. He turned right around and went [to get] his brother-in-law [who] was the branch president in that territory and [had] him administer to me. After he administered to me, I went back to sleep and I slept until the doctor [came].

When he administered to me that was the first time I really [had] a testimony of the gospel. I never was a hand much to call for the elders, but I know it is good. I know it has helped us if we are earnest, believe and have the faith.

FH:Did the doctor set your leg?

JZ:No, he didn't set my leg. He set it as good as he could in a splint and then 01:09:00I was moved to the hospital. It was during the influenza time and they had to put me in what they called a flu hospital. All the other hospitals here [were full and] they had to [open] another hospital to put patients in and they put me in there.

FH:[Was] your leg set [while you] were in the hospital?

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JZ:Yes. They set my leg [in the hospital]. [He walked with a limp the rest of his life.] Of course, they were short on nurses and help and so they [brought] 01:10:00my sister [in] to help take care of me. She was only about fourteen years old, maybe a little older. She was going in the change of life, growing into womanhood. She took the flu while she was there [and] we were [in] the hospital together. We [became very] close. This is the [sister, Frida Verena or Verna who] lives in Barstow.

FH:Did you get to know her better?

JZ:Yes, and she got to know me. We have always been close ever since. She is [very] active in church.

One thing I would like to get on this record: we were there until after New 01:11:00Years. We spent Christmas there. The folks didn't send us anything from home, I don't think, because they didn't know how we were. I think they sent us a card. One of the fellows [in the hospital] was going around feeding all the sick people. He went into town and passed his hat and told about a boy and a girl in the hospital and [that] their parents had died. He didn't know my father was still living, but he knew my mother was dead. He thought they both were dead. He [brought] us a big Christmas present. He [had] lots of money [inaudible]. I can't remember exactly what [the present] was now.

FH:You had a Christmas anyway.

JZ:Yes, and realized what people could do for you. He was good. He was no 01:12:00trouble to anybody and my sister [inaudible].

FH:That is wonderful. Even though it wasn't something you desired, it was a good experience.

JZ:Yes, it was a good experience. I went home when I [left] there. I told this partner of mine that he could just forget me and pick whatever was left and [I would] start over for myself again. He was in quite a bit of debt. He was a [fellow who] just bought everything.

FH:You were probably better off.

JZ:Yes. I [was] stuck with the note I had signed with him on the tank. I paid off my share of it the next year by working. They still wanted to hook me for 01:13:00all of it because he wasn't coming through. He wanted to pay me rent. When I left that country [area] up in there [and] came down here, I didn't use my full name. I used John Henry. I don't know if they ever tried chasing [after] me or not, but that is the reason I did it.

FH:They probably went onto him for [the debt].

JZ:I don't know if they did or not. He moved out of there before I did. He left the country [area] before I did.

FH:Do you like the Dixie country [area]?

JZ:I have always liked Dixie [fairly well] yes, except not in the summertime.

FH:It is warm.

JZ:I haven't been right in St. George much [of] the summertime until the last 01:14:00few years. I found out you can get used to anything if you get accustomed to it. I don't like it up in eastern Idaho. I like to go up there and visit.

FH:It is pretty in the summer.

JZ:Oh, it is lovely up there in the summer! Last summer I went up there and it rained [and] rained. I [began] feeling moody. My arthritis was coming on [fairly] bad. I worked all the time. That was the only thing that kept me [going]. I tried to keep dry and avoid getting wet. When I left that country [area] I had rheumatism all the time. My teeth were always giving me trouble.

FH:It is a good thing you left [the area].

JZ:My mother died [from] a leak in her heart just because the climate [altitude] was too high for her. They were going to move out of there before she [became] 01:15:00too sick. They came down to Logan, but everything they tried to buy was so high that they didn't think they could afford to [live there]. It would cost them more than what they would get for the farm if they sold it for what they thought it was worth. So they decided to stay [in Idaho].

FH:Are there any other things you can remember that you think you ought to tell about?

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JZ:My wife [is] part Indian. Her father was a [very] religious man and so was her mother [Rosette (Gifford) Lemmon]. He filled a short-term [LDS] mission. One son [Nathaniel Lemmon] spent a whole [LDS] mission in the south. He is the only 01:16:00[boy who] is active. The other boy [Alden Lemmon] isn't very active. They [David and Rosette] had twelve children, but they lost half of them before the mother [Rosette] died.

FH:Is your wife active in the church?

JZ:She is [very] active [and] is a good talker. She remembers scriptures and does lots of teaching. In fact, they would call her for a class if they needed a substitute teacher.

FH:Is she in Las Vegas?

JZ:She is in Las Vegas [and] is doing a good work. She is babysitting for one of my daughters [Tonia, who] is working. She makes a little money there and I give her some and the rent from the home goes to her. She is a good woman. She has 01:17:00done wonderfully raising the family. [It] just seems like she has lost interest in me, but I am in hopes it will come back. I have faith that it will as long as I do my part and go on and work in the temple. I am sure that maybe she will have the desire to come back and work with me.

FH:Do you enjoy the work in the temple?

JZ:Yes, I do. Yesterday I put in four sessions. I didn't get there for the first [session] until the ten o'clock session. [It] is my desire is to work as long as I can and go to the temple. In the summertime I like to go visiting. I have a pass [and] can go wherever I want [to] on the railroad ─ wherever the Union Pacific [Railroad] goes.

FH:Are you retired?

JZ:Yes, I am retired. [Each month] I draw $128.00 from the railroad [and] $56.00 01:18:00from Social Security.

FH:[Does] this help you to get along [fairly] well?

JZ:Yes, and whatever I make along the side. I work when I feel like it. When I don't feel like it, I don't work. I am still fighting. I feel like I should give up working entirely and just go to the temple. As long as my wife isn't living with me, I have time to get a little money ahead so when she does come back we will have something to live on [and] we won't depend on the children. We have turned our home over to the children because, when I retired, I [was] too poor to take care of it. They took it over and we signed the property over to them. 01:19:00We have [the] right to live in our home as long as we live together, but I don't want to stay alone.

FH:You have had a wonderful lifetime of experiences. Would you counsel your descendants? Have you learned a lot of good lessons from life?

JZ:Yes, I have. I know when we live right we are blessed and are [more] apt to get the things we want than when we don't live right. I have had a lot of weakness to contend with and get over. I have always had a desire to do well and to help do good and to work in the church. But I have never been much count in the church. I have never held an office. I have never refused to do anything that they have asked me to do that I [thought] I was qualified to do or able to do.

FH:What kind of counsel would you give to your children?

JZ:My counsel and advice is get interested in the church and live the gospel for themselves. None of us will do what we are supposed to do until we understand the gospel, its principles, and its foundation.

FH:Are they apt to do much with it unless they understand why?

JZ:No. We don't do anything anytime if we don't understand or don't want to do it. We don't want to do it until we understand that it is for our good. Unless they get active, they will never understand. My advice is to anybody, not only my children, anybody, is to get busy and find out what it is all about. There is no better place to find out than to work in the church. You get active and then you learn the gospel. That is the only way you learn it. I am in hopes and pray 01:21:00that they will all become active and use their talent that way. They all have good talents. They have good educations. They can do anything they want, really. They don't have trouble. I am thankful that they are all making as good a living as they are. There is none of them that have ever [been] in any trouble of any kind to speak of. I am blessed in that way. I am sorry they haven't married in the church like they [should] have.

FH:That is not so serious if they can bring their companion.

JZ:That is right; if they bring their companion. They will do their part and bring their companions in.

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FH:Are there other things you can remember?

JZ:I think I would like to mention my half-sister [Neola Zohner] from my 01:22:00father's second wife [Barbara Rosina (Stucki) Tobler Zohner]. Her name is Neola [and she married a McCall. She has been a great worker in the church and has been a great help in school. She was a teacher and superintendent most of the time in the Jewish school in Las Vegas for about thirteen years. They are living in Bountiful [Davis County] Utah [and] they are both still active in church. She is the president of the primary at the present time. He is an officiator in the temple. So they are turning out very good. They have one son on a [LDS] mission right now. They have three children altogether.

FH:Do they live in [Las] Vegas?

JZ:Do you mean [Neola's] children?

FH:Yes.

JZ:The oldest girl is married and she is living in California at the present time. Her husband is going to school there for some government position he is trying to get. Their son is in Korea on a [LDS] mission. They have one little girl [who] is eight years old now.

FH:Has she been a real help to you?

JZ:Yes, she [Neola] has. When she was [younger], we [thought] she would have quite a handicap in finding a mate because she had a growth on the end of her nose. It looked awful. She started teaching school and saved her money and had 01:24:00it operated on and got rid of most of it. She married a fellow out of the church but she converted him to the church before she married. He has been [very] active in the church. He was first clerk in the stake presidency and was put in the Mutual [Improvement Association] superintendence over the ward and then over the stake. He has been a real worker. But he cannot get his folks converted. Of course, he is just letting them take their own time. He is not trying to push them. He is just setting a good example for them. He is not trying to preach to them because, he says, if they cannot see it themselves they won't accept it. This is true of a lot of them.

I would like to go back and tell you a little more about our experience making a 01:25:00living when in the Teton Basin where our home was and most of us grew up.

FH:Was this back on the homestead?

JZ:Yes, up in Driggs, Idaho. [My parents] were very poor when they first went there. They did have enough to buy two or three cows and started that way. The first calves they raised [were] bull calves. They made oxen out of them. They raised them to work and broke up [ground on] most of the homesteads with the oxen and their four horses. They had to have the oxen to help them pull the hand plow. They had two horses and two oxen on a hand plow. [There was] a lot of 01:26:00buffalo grass and big sagebrush and it was hard to break [the ground] up. After it was broken up, it would [take] two months to clear the brush off and burn it before you could put it in the drain.

FH:They had a big job.

JZ:When we could, we would go off and work. [When] I first started to work for wages, I [was paid] $.15 a day. I shocked wheat on the Rexburg [Idaho] bench [at] what they call the Rexburg Dry Farm. Up in Teton Basin when I started working in [the] Teton Basin, I was getting $.25 a day. I had to milk eight to 01:27:00twelve cows a day; with an old work horse, I pitched or hauled hay all day. That was the same [when I was] herding sheep. I worked for that price for about two years. Then I finally went out to what they call the lower valley, between Teton City [Idaho] and where we were on the dry farm. I found job on the farm. They would pay $15.00 a month. That would be about $.50 a day. We didn't have to work Sunday so it made it a little better. That was what the arrangements were. I [received] my $15.00 and my board and room. I worked that way for about two or three years before [inaudible]. I got up to maybe where I [was paid] $.75 a day. 01:28:00But I always had a job.

There was one summer [between] the last two winters I went to school. I did chores and milked cows and I [earned] $5.00 a month and board and room. My brother [Johan Gottlieb] was the same way. [He] left the family after we went out on the homestead. He didn't like the slow way we had of doing things. He wanted to be where [he] had an easy way of doing it. He left and it was about seven years [that] we didn't even know where he was. Finally, we found out he was in Montana. He went to work for some cattle outfit up there. That is where 01:29:00he lived and died.

FH:Did he stay up there until he died?

JZ:Yes. He came home a few times and went in the [military] service. He never did get active in church. He saved up quite a little money. He always took care of himself. When he died, he left quite a bit of money and willed it to one of my brothers [Jacob] to be distributed towards someone who needed it, not just for him to use for what he want. It was left so if somebody [was] sick and couldn't help themselves, or they had to have an operation, or had a fire and needed help [or events] like that. That was what it was left for. It caused quite a little confusion amongst some sisters and my own brother [John] too. I only had one brother [Jacob] besides him. He [John] didn't understand it. He was 01:30:00hurt because he didn't get some of it and the same with his twin sister, [Rosa].

I had one sister [Lydia] just younger than this brother [who] had always been at odds ever since he took over the old homestead. She had it and they lost it. Then he [Jacob] took it over and carried it on. She has kind of carried a sore spot against him all the time. [When] this came up and it even worsened because she didn't understand or was jealous, I guess, mostly. I have talked to her and told her. She tried to get us to hire a lawyer and fight it. I told her it wouldn't do us any good because I had talked to a lawyer, a very good friend of mine in the church, and knew he was honest and would tell me the truth. He told us we just better forget it. The way it was written up, nobody could do 01:31:00anything; only he and [it] couldn't be a chance for anybody else. I tried to tell her, but she wouldn't believe me. She hired a lawyer herself and this lawyer told her if she could get the rest of [us] to cooperate and sign a paper that [we] were willing to go along with her, he would see what he could do. He didn't promise anything for sure. I told her he wouldn't promise her because he knows what he can't do. That made her sore because we wouldn't sign these papers because we knew it would just cause more feelings between us and our brother if we did and it wouldn't do us any good.

FH:Sometimes things like that are better left alone.

JZ:Yes, it is. That is what we tried [to tell her]. She has not been too active in church. She raised a big family and had to depend on the Lord a lot of times. She was a hard worker all her life [and] raised a wonderful family. A few of 01:32:00them went astray after they were grown up. But when they were young and under her jurisdiction, they were always straight and knew the gospel.

FH:Has your family been hardworking people?

JZ:This brother [John] of mine is up in Orem [Utah County], Utah now, in a welfare hospital. [John has had some mental difficulties.] He is almost seventy-five years old now. He never would try to do anything much as long as he [had] something to eat and something to read. That is all he cared for. He never seemed to have [any] ambition. He was smart. He could tell you anything about the government if you could understand him. But during his education he never did learn to talk plain. I don't know why. He could read it, but I don't know why he cannot pronounce it, but he doesn't. Nobody can understand [inaudible] 01:33:00what he is trying to say. I have heard a lot of fellows say he has had a wonderful education. [John and his twin sister, Rosa, were left deaf from measles when very young so neither of them could speak very well.]

My father made a mistake after my mother died. He didn't send him back to school. Mother put him in a deaf and dumb school in Boise every winter. [It] was the third winter that he was in [school] when my mother died. He let him finish that winter but he didn't encourage him to go back. He told him he was on his own from [then] on. My brother [Jacob] had taken up a homestead, part of a homestead right there next to my father's and told him he could work on that. My sister [Rosa] went off and got a job in a hotel. She did [fairly] good. She took care of herself and is neat and clean where he isn't. He doesn't keep himself 01:34:00clean. [Inaudible] it would just be a mess in that place. That is the reason none of us care to have him with us. We try to see that he gets help when he is sick or needs help. As long as we know he is alright, we just leave him alone because he won't listen to any of us. He always wants to tell us what to do instead of listening to what we tell him he should do. A lot of people think we neglect him and I guess maybe we are. But it is the best we can do under the circumstances. If he could understand what we want, maybe we could change his ways. But he won't.

He never could get along with my father because he wouldn't work. Father would [give] him something to do and he would walk [off] by himself. When he would come back, he would be reading and the work wouldn't be done. The same way with 01:35:00my oldest brother [Johan Gottlieb]. He had him on his place for two or three months and it was the same way. He didn't tell him to leave. He tried to keep him [inaudible] but he didn't like it and took off himself. [He] came back up where the folks [inaudible].

When I moved down to this country [area] I brought him [John] down here and tried to teach him how to do things and what he shouldn't do. But he [stayed] to himself quite a lot and soon he went back up to Idaho.

When the World War [II] broke out, he got a job in Ogden [Weber County, Utah] in the city. They needed help [doing] handyman work. He was a good worker. He worked until he [began] to argue with people. The fellows he was working with 01:36:00would put up with it until they could get more help, then they just wouldn't give him work. They gave him enough work so [that] he worked there long enough [to receive] Social Security when he retired.

FH:Has as this helped him?

JZ:Yes, this has helped him in a way. I have one sister named Rachel. She has kind of a retarded mind. She is liked, though, [and] she married. The first time, she married an old man seventy-five years old. She was twenty-two or 01:37:00twenty-three years old then, but they got along fine. They were happily married and she took care of him. He only lived five years after she married him. After they married, they found all these property [inaudible]. His children cleared forty acres and took over the mortgage. They paid them off and gave her a clear title to this forty acres.

About two years or three years [later], she met another fellow. He was a good LDS man, but he had epileptic fits [seizures]. She didn't know about this until after they were married. Of course, she carried on. He was incapable of making a 01:39:0001:38:00good living for her. [Because of] these spells, he didn't get much work and didn't have too much ambition either. He was good in church. He worked on whatever they asked him to do. This caused her too much of a strain. They were having children too close together. She finally had a nervous breakdown and lost her mind. It was a pity she lost her mind, it was a nervous breakdown. She was pregnant with the last baby. The Relief Society figured it was best to put her in a home up in Boise [Idaho]. It wasn't an asylum. It was sort of for 01:41:0001:40:00weak-minded people. She was never considered insane or anything like that, but she was just weak-minded. She got well there and had her baby. Of course, they let her keep her baby until it was a year old. Then they [the welfare workers] had [the baby] adopted out and this broke her down again. For awhile they thought they were going to have to put her in an asylum, but she finally came out of it and they could handle her [fairly] good. She [started] working and has been there ever since.

[END OF TAPE TWO -- SIDE ONE]

JZ:They transferred her up to a place up in Arthea, Idaho, a place [for] people over sixty-five with a weak-mind. We thought it was a rest home. [It is] 01:42:00connected with the state school [where] she was in Boise. Now they have transferred her to a rest home in Arthea. Maybe I am going into too much detail on this.

All in all, I feel we have been [very] blessed in a lot of ways. We have had ups and downs, of course. But considering all, I think we have had a [fairly] good life. I have tried to live a good life. I have tried to follow the rules of the church and teachings of the gospel and tried to do all I can. I am a great believer of tithing [and] all donations like [the] fast offerings. I think there is no better place to put your money. I hope and pray that my children will all 01:43:00come to the same conclusion. They just don't think it is necessary. They like pleasure better than they do things that might bring them. I know the gospel is true and I know it is for our good. I know when we live it and work in it [that] it becomes useful and helpful [in] helping others to do what they should do.

I don't know if I have anymore to say, but I am thankful that this [opportunity] has come along so [my story] can be carried on and [others will] know all the feelings.

[END OF TAPE TWO -- SIDE TWO]