Interview with Athole Jarvis Milne

Athole Jarvis Milne was interviewed on February 13, 1969 in Washington City, Washington County, Utah by Fielding H. Harris, a representative of Voices of Remembrance Foundation. He related his personal history of living in various parts of Utah, Arizona and Nevada. His wife, Amanda Amelia (Hannig) Milne also participated.

FH:What is your full name?

AM:[My name is] Athole Jarvis Milne.

FH:What is your birth date?

AM:I was born August 19, 1877 in St. George [Washington County, Utah].

FH:[What was] your father's name?

AM:[My father's name was] David Milne.

FH:What was your mother's [full] name?

AM:[Her name was] Ann Catherine (Jarvis) [Milne].

FH:Can you remember [anything] that happened to you when you were a youngster? What can you remember from way back when you were a little fellow?

AM:I am stumped.

FH:You can't remember something from there?

AM:We used to have a donkey [to] ride. We used to [laughter] chase rabbits and we would take turns riding this donkey. This donkey would be frightened to death of the Indians. We would get close to these Indians [and] we would get the donkey [inaudible]. [Laughter]

FH:Was the donkey afraid of them?

AM:When a rabbit would come towards us, they would be yelling. No telling [where] that donkey would go.

FH:Would he run away from them?

AM:He would run to get away from them. [The donkey was] scared to death of [the] Indians.

FH:Have you ever heard of another animal like that before or since?

AM:I guess if I think long enough [I will think of one].

FH:I never heard of animals [being] scared of Indians. That is the first time I 00:02:00ever heard anything like that. That is a [very] strange [story].

AM:Maybe I was just about as afraid as the donkey.

FH:I think you were. Did you get to go to school at all?

AM:I [had] quite a bit of schooling. From the time I was twelve years old, I worked. I worked until it was close to Christmas time.

FH:If you went to school, [did] you go in the middle of winter?

AM:Yes. [When I lived] out in LaVerkin [Washington County, Utah] I was thirteen years old. They sent [me] to [get] water out on the LaVerkin [Bench]. [You could] go through that tunnel for about a thousand feet. You would be changed in there. I fought [in] the field with mountain lions.

FH:Were you in there?

AM:I would go through the ditch. [Inaudible] off and [there would be] a ditch rider. I would go up quite often to help him for the afternoon. I would have to 00:03:00go through that tunnel alone [with] no lights.

FH:Did you take any light with you?

AM:No, it [was] the dark. It is a thousand feet through, but it was straight [down]. You could see both [of your] hands.

FH:Was it straight enough you could see light from both ends?

AM:Yes, but it was a big cave. I imagine it [was] full of mountain lions. We were coming back one day. The dishwasher came into the tunnel and watched me go through. I was thinking about these caves [having] animals in there and, sure enough, [I] heard a bear or something shake itself. Away I went! How I did go.

FH:[Laughter] You didn't wait to see what it was!

AM:I dropped my shovel and lost my rubber boots. Of course, they were big men's 00:04:00boots. This man had a good laugh at me at the supper table. He laid it on me. He was watching me and could see this big dog. [Inaudible] In the summertime they would keep it away from the flies. They would take [the meat] in there and hang it up in the cave. They would go in the day. This dog was following us. He stopped there to smell the meat and when he heard me coming back, he wouldn't follow me out, and shook himself in there. [Laughter]

FH:That would give you a scare.

AM:This dishwasher, at [the] supper table, counted it as a good joke on me. The superintendent [had] only four men and a boy working there. I was the boy. The dishwasher told it on me about being with this dog. The superintendent said, "I 00:05:00would have done the same thing." I knew he never would because he never would go through there alone, even when there was no water in there. He would go way around the warm [sulphur] springs. [It was] probably three times farther rather than go through [the] tunnel alone.

FH:I wouldn't blame you. I would too. How much [education] did you [have]?

AM:I [received] plenty of [education] you might say, but [I] got so far behind by staying out late and starting early, staying out and going to LaVerkin.

FH:[Did] you have to work and so this is why it was so difficult?

AM:Yes.

FH:Do you remember any of [your] teachers by name?

AM:Yes, there was Nephi M. Savage, Martha Snow [who] later married Doctor Robert Keith [and] my Aunt Josephine [(Jarvis)] Miles. [She was] my mother's sister who married George E. Miles. George is still alive. [He is] 102 [years old and lives] in St. George.

FH:I know him.

AM:Every teacher I [had] I liked. I liked every one of them.

FH:If you had not had so much work interfering with school, you probably would have [received] a good education. You would have really enjoyed school.

AM:I got along pretty well, but staying out [put me] far behind. [There were] little girls way ahead of me. I had to get them to help me. That discouraged me [and] I sure [wanted to] give up.

FH: Did you take any trips when you were younger before you were married?

AM:I turned twenty-one [years old] working at the sulfur beds north of Beaver [Beaver County, Utah] near Cove Fort. I worked there [for] $40.00 a month, ten and twelve hour [days].

FH:That was good wages [in] those days.

AM:The only cash wages there was, at that time, in 1898.

FH:[That was in] 1898.

AM:We [were paid] $40.00 a month [and we] paid $4.00 a week for board.

FH:What a difference that would be today.

AM:When I was there, I did take trips to Salt Lake [City, Salt Lake County, Utah]. There was a [inaudible] black crop and gets trained there.

FH:What did you think of Salt Lake [City] when you [were] up there?

AM:I didn't see a soul that I knew. I got me a room to stay in and lived on ice cream, pie and cake, [laughter] [and] candy. I stayed there about four days. When I went back to the sulfur beds, I was pretty sick.

FH:I bet you were.

AM:I didn't have [any] vegetables and I needed [some] bread.

FH:You didn't [come back] as healthy as you left.

AM:I was a pretty sick fellow.

FH:I can imagine that alright.

AHM:[Tell him] how old were you when you had appendicitis?

FH:How old were you when you had appendicitis?

AM:[I was] about sixteen [years old].

FH:What happened?

AM:I went on a trip with a cousin of mine [from] Veyo [Washington County, Utah]. [It] was thirty miles away with a team. He went up to get a scraper, I think it 00:09:00was. On the way back, we went by way of Toquerville [Washington County, Utah] where his grandmother lived. There, we had dried fruit and nuts of all kinds. I had to walk [nearly] all the way to St. George. Next morning I had appendicitis. They hadn't started to operate for appendicitis at that time, so the doctor, good old English doctor there in St. George, Doctor [Clark], told my mother to not let me eat anything solid, but I could have [all the] egg-nog I wanted. So I had egg-nog for thirty-five days. I got so I sure liked it. [Laughter]

FH:That was better than to get so you didn't like it.

AM:I got [through] appendicitis, I guess.

FH:Then [you were] well?

AM:I guess. I just caught just a little slight patch [inaudible] off my chest. Whatever shape it was in, I never knew.

FH:You were very fortunate. Were you interested in activities of The Church [of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]?

AM:[I was] not very much [interested], only [being] a deacon and things like other boys would be.

FH:Were you in the Aaronic Priesthood when you were [young]?

AM:Yes. Then I [was] away so much, [that I] neglected it. [I] didn't hardly [want to] start over anymore.

FH:Did you get back into any church activity at all since then?

AM:Very little. [I] go to meetings, like that.

AHM:[Inaudible]

AM:Once I was married, [inaudible] ordained an elder.

FH:Were you ordained an elder and go to the temple [when] you were married?

AM:Yes. [On] our wedding day the temple was closed [because] of the assassination of [United States] President [William] McKinley. It was closed that day, so we didn't go to the temple for a week. That was from when President McKinley was shot.

FH:That is really something [that] you had your wedding scheduled [on] the day he was killed.

AM:We went ahead with it anyhow.

FH:[Did] you go to the temple later?

AM:My uncle, Thomas Cottam, married us here in Washington [City, Washington County, Utah on September 19, 1901].

FH:[Was] your wedding day was the same day as the day President McKinley was killed?

AM:Maybe [it was] the next day. The temple was closed anyhow.

FH:That helps to get that on record, we need to know that. That is interesting. 00:12:00Tell about your dad. What do you remember about him?

AM:[I remember] very little. He died when I was nineteen [years old]. He spent four years working on the Manti Temple [Manti, Sanpete County, Utah].

FH:[Was he] building the temple?

AM:He was a painter and my brother [George], just older than me, was with him. They were [working] there [for] four years. That was four years that I didn't see anything of him. He had one of his other wives up with him.

FH:How many wives did he have?

AM:He had three [wives], but there was only one child by the first one. She died 00:13:00soon after her child was twenty-one [years old].

[David Milne married Susan B. (Young) Milne on June 10, 1856 in Dunkeld, Perthshire, Scotland. He married Ann Catherine (Jarvis) Milne on May 3, 1870 in Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah. On October 9, 1871 he married Anna (Hess) Milne in Salt Lake City.]

FH:Where was your dad born?

AM:[He was born] in [Dunkeld, Perthshire] Scotland. [Inaudible]

FH:Did he come to America before he was married?

AM:No, he heard the gospel in New Zealand. His parents, [as] near as I can tell, his father set him up in the paint business in New Zealand. They were a family of painters and he had a paint business in New Zealand. He heard the gospel and came by way of San Francisco [California] to Utah. This is what I heard.

FH:[Did] he bring a wife with him from New Zealand?

AM:Yes, his first wife. He married the other two after they [arrived in] St. George.

FH:Do you remember the names of those wives?

AM:Ann Catherine Jarvis was my mother, and they called [the other wife] Annie Gubler. Whether she was a Gubler or not, I really never did ever know for sure. The name Hess comes in somewhere or another. Her name might have been Annie Hess.

FH:That might have been both of [the wives]. It might have been Annie Hess Gubler.

AM:I never knew for sure.

FH:It helps to know about it. Do you know the names of the other wives at all?

AM:That was all I guess. There was the first wife --.

FH:Do you know her name?

AM:No, I don't know her name.

FH:How many children did your own father and mother have?

AM:[I had] four brothers and [three] sisters -- David [Jarvis], Susan [Young Jarvis], George [Jarvis], myself, [Erastus] "Rass" [Jarvis], [Margaret] "Maggie" [Jarvis], Josephine [Jarvis] and [Joseph] "Joe" [Jarvis Milne]. Josephine is still living in Murray [Salt Lake County, Utah]. [Inaudible]

FH:Can you tell a little about your [father]? What [was his] personality? What did you think of him? What kind of a man was he to be around?

AM:He was well-liked [by] other people [and] neighbors. He was well-liked.

FH:[Did] he get along good with people?

AM:Yes, he got along.

FH:Was he a hard-working man?

AM:He was a painter [and] liked to work all the time. About the last four years 00:16:00[of his life] he [came down with] some painter's colic or something. [All the paint] was mixed with oil and lead at that time. That lead was bad.

FH:[Did] he [have] a lot of bends?

AM:Yes, that is what it could really be. A good old doctor in St. George, Dr. Higgins, he didn't have very much education in drugs [for] that but did pretty well.

FH:That is difficult to handle anyway.

AM:I guess it is.

FH:Tell a little bit about your mother. What do you remember about her?

AM:I spent most of my life with my mother. She had to do quite a lot of hard work to keep [the] family going.

FH:In those days, a woman's work wasn't easy.

AM:No sir, [it was] six bits [$.75] a day for doing a big washing. My older brother, [who] is just next to me, George, learned [the] painting trade. He almost kept us, I guess.

FH:When you [were] old enough to work, what did you decide to do first?

AM:I didn't decide at all. [Laughter] I took what [work] I would get when I was up in LaVerkin. It was $15.00 a month [with the] factory paying your board. It was eight hours a day. We would all put in nine or fourteen hours every day [inaudible] and all.

FH:Tell me what kind of work? What was [the] factory?

AM:This was working on the --.

FH:Was this [working for] the irrigation company?

AM:Yes. I would take a stream of water and water [the] young trees and 00:18:00grapevines. Between times, I dug brush with a grub hoe.

FH:Was it more of a farming job? Did you work in the mill here?

AM:Yes, [I was at] LaVerkin at that time. Tom Judd owned LaVerkin and he promoted it. He also [was] the [Cotton] Factory superintendent. [He] leased the factory. He planted a lot of acreage into cotton out in LaVerkin. George and I would help. [He was] the one I would work with so much. [He] was a few years older than me. We would plant cotton by hand. [The ground] would be furrowed out 00:19:00and we would plant it, water it, hoe it and pick it. I worked there [for] about three years and then [I] started [working] in the factory [when] it [was] sold. We would work up in the cotton and bag it. I signed up as an apprentice to take that job. When [inaudible], that the man that I was working under, I took his place in charge of half of the machinery. I would start the factory up and oil the shafting and have charge of all the cotton right from the seed. [It would] go through the gin, gin the seeds out and then go [to] what they call the 00:20:00widower's dowel. Then the lapper and they were ready for the cotton cards where they would start by making [the] yarn. Cotton cards matted [and] did the assortment by yarn. Pitch it for the spinning frames. The spinning frames have to fix it and be ready for the looms [to make] it into cloth. They made a tremendous [amount] of it into cotton batting.

FH:Is this what they put into quilts?

AM:Yes, the batting. That was where they got their cash. ZCMI [Zion Cooperative Mercantile Institute] took every bit of the batting. You couldn't sell anything at all but the first-class batting in this area. Part of it was shipped north 00:21:00and then shipped back again to the store. They had the same class batting here which was [very] good. They [had] a lot of waste cotton. It was kind of sport cotton like, being raised on it or something.

FH:[Were there] short fibers?

AM:Yes.

FH:How long did you stay in the mill?

AM:[I was there] possibly four years and then I started working [in] the mines.

FH:Where did you first go to work [in] the mines?

AM:I first went up the sulfur beds. I turned twenty-one [years old] working there.

FH:Is that where you had your twenty-first birthday?

AM:Yes. Nobody celebrated. [Laughter]

FH:Didn't they? [Laughter] [They] didn't have time to celebrate?

AM:No.

FH:What kind of wages did you get in the sulfur beds?

AM:[I received] $40.00 a month and $4.00 a week for board.

FH:You [were] paid $4.00 a week for board?

AM:Yes sir. The acid water in [the sulphur would] eat clothes and shoes out fast. So it took quite a lot for clothes.

FH:Did you come out with too much ahead?

AM:No, but it was the best we could do at that time. Then I came back [here]. My brother George had been put in charge of Apex Mine [and Smelter on the Shivwits Indian Reservation] as foreman. He gave me a job there. I worked about half my life. I guess. He had been [with] Apex Mine with the Grand Gulch Mine [on the Arizona Strip].

FH:[Did you get] a little bit better wage?

AM:Yes, miners [received] $1.75 and $2.00 a day for eight hours. Muckers [received] $1.50. Of course, board [was] taken out. [We] had good chuck [food] 00:23:00too. [The] Apex Mine was about twenty-two miles west of St. George and the Grand Gulch Mine [was] down in northern Arizona about eighty-six miles south of St. George. Both [were] high-grade copper mines. The ore would be shipped by wagon to the railroad in Modena [Iron County] Utah. [It was] quite a long wagon haul. [From] the Grand Gulch, [it was] eighty-six miles farther. They had to ship 00:24:00high-grade ore, nothing under fifteen percent. Had to [be] fifteen percent to pay the shipping [costs].

[It] wasn't worthwhile unless it was pretty good. Later on, when the railroad [was] closer and they [had] trucks, that was [very] good pickings to ship during World War I. They sorted every bit of [the] copper out. Copper come up to a good high price. I think [it was] $0.36 [per pound]. It might be they finally paid it. I think Young did it $0.26 [per] pound.

FH:That paid him well to reclaim [something] that they never had before.

AM:Yes, they had to read their pickings from that same class dump, they would call it.

FH: How many years did you spend in mining all together? Do you have any idea?

AM:I guess twenty [years]. I [had] to run my hoist though in both places later. 00:25:00Of course, that was a lot better pay.

FH:[It was] better pay and a better job. Are those two mines where you went up [near Cove Fort, Millard County, Utah] to Sulfurdale [inaudible] you worked in?

AM:I worked in [the] Goodsprings [Mine in Nevada for] six months, I guess, but had a dose of lead [poisoning] and had to quit.

FH:Was that enough of that?

AM:Yes.

FH:I think that is what has given you problems now.

AM:I think that is what put me in the wheelchair.

FH:Of course, your age hasn't got anything to do with that. [Laughter] When you are just a [youngster] like this, it is too bad to have to spend time in a wheelchair.

What [did] you used to do when you were growing-up just for fun? What did you do 00:26:00to have a good time?

AM:[I would] mostly [use] boxing gloves. Anybody likes the boxing gloves for reasons. I worked on the Cottonwood Ditch. I was seventeen [or] eighteen [years old]. That brought the water from Pine Valley Mountain to St. George. I worked there. I helped put that in. I can't think of one person [who] worked there [who is] still alive, but me. I just can't think of another person who worked on that ditch.

FH: Do you remember about what year [it] was that you worked [there]?

AM:I was about seventeen, [so] I would have to figure from 1877. About eight of us made a ditch on the Price [City] Bench [now Bloomington, Washington County, Utah]. [It was] about a five-mile ditch. [That] got the water over [the] Price Bench. That is where [the] big activity is now, [at] this golf course [Bloomington Country Club], across on the Bloomington side. They [the golf course developers] bought both sides [and] the Price Bench as well. I [was] crippled up and couldn't do a session [of] that work anymore on [inaudible]. In order to get on welfare, I had to give that up. I tried to sell about sixty 00:28:00acres for $1,150.00. That was during The [Great] Depression. We had two children still going to school [and] we needed a little money.

FH:Things are only as valuable as what you can get out of them at the time.

AM:[It was] almost [a] starvation proposition. There wasn't one of us who [built] that ditch, the regular ones, [who received] $0.10 on the dollar for the work. I know that.

FH:Isn't that heartbreaking though?

AM:But I couldn't get $1,150.00 for our [land] so I sold it to my son, Clyde [Milne], for $1,600.00 and we had to take [inaudible].

FH:Did you ever go to a dance in your life?

AM:Yes, off and on; never got to be a very good dancer.

FH:This was part of the social life. Did you enter into that scene? [It] sounds to me like you spent a lot of time working.

AM:The last twenty years, I have been in this wheelchair. I have had a lot of rest, too.

FH:I am talking about when you were young.

AM:Everybody, if they could get a day's work, they grabbed it. I did hate work farmers with pitchforks.

FH:You didn't like that? Were you happier in the mines?

AM:Yes. You go ride a handy and tell you what to do and you are left to do it. Unless I had a dangerous job, I never dreaded a day's work in the mine. This is 00:30:00a dangerous place so every once in awhile you would have [problems].

FH:[Did] you know when it was dangerous?

AM:[At the] Apex Mine, there was never a man killed there. There were several bad accidents. It caved in one time [and] it looked like they had thirty men trapped. By golly, a wise old man had been there named [inaudible] district. He was foreman [and] he ran a cross-cut in a big natural cave. They would go down on the rope from the tunnel 200 feet into this big cave. He had them run a cross-cut over to the shaft so the air would be better. That is the way they made their escape out [when] trapped in there. Half of them knew when they were 00:31:00all out, they knew it was coming. They were out in the hard limestone where they had a new shaft. It happened right at noon. Those thirty men got out through that cave by letting a rope down.

FH:[It] sounds like divine providence was with them.

AM:[It was] about the time this picture was taken. It was in 1905, I think, that they had the cave-in.

FH:There are about forty men [who] were working there when you were.

AM:That was just one shift. The high was seventy-five [men] working there. The Grand Gulch [had] nearly the same, only they had more men.

FH:I would like you to tell when you met your wife, your courtship and your marriage.

AM:I think it was her mother, [Karen Jensen (Nielsen) Hannig, who] had more to do with it than either of us. [Laughter]

FH:Her mother engineered this?

AM:Yes, I think so.

FH:I would like to know about that.

AM:She [Amanda Amelia Hannig] worked in the factory like everybody. I guess she kind of took a liking to me.

AHM:[Inaudible.]

FH:Was it at the factory [where] you met her?

AM:Yes. A lot of good girls worked in that factory.

FH:Did you ask her for dates? How did this thing start?

AM:I just don't know.

AHM:The first time he took me out [was] after a Mutual [Improvement Association meeting. [Inaudible]

FH:Do you remember taking her home that night?

AM:Yes. Heck, yes.

FH:How long did it take you to know if she was the one you wanted? [Was it] very long?

AM:[Inaudible]

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF]

FH:This other child was Dan Graham and he lives next door to you.

AM:Yes.

FH:Are you real proud of your children?

AM:Yes, you bet. He was [inaudible] in my whole lifetime.

FH:[It] makes you a millionaire. Would you take a million dollars for any one of them?

AM:Heck no!

FH:Then you are a multi-millionaire. [Inaudible] That is the next best truth.

AM:That is exactly right.

FH:Tell about this job you had up there in Ogden. Was it Ogden?

[END OF TAPE -- SIDE ONE]

AM:My brother was the superintendent there at that time. Doctor A. G. Gowans was acquainted with "Rass." "Rass" was quite an athlete and had a pretty good basketball team in Salt Lake [City]. [Inaudible] Later, he was assistant coach 00:37:00at the University of Utah [Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah]. He was acquainted with Dr. Gowans. [Inaudible] So C. J. got me a job up there. There wasn't any work here.

FH:What kind of work were you doing?

AM:At first, I started out on the farm with a bunch of boys.

FH:Were you supervising them?

AM:It was just a bunch of boys. [Inaudible] supervisor under Dr. Gowans. That 00:38:00was two wonderful men there, Tom Myers and [inaudible]. [Inaudible] The boys would [inaudible] and haul rocks around there and garden [things] that they could use. There were about 125 boys, inmates, and maybe forty-five [inaudible]. They had quite a dairy herd there. Later, I [did] the laundry work.

FH:Were you an overseer of some of the work?

AM:Yes. [Inaudible] five or six boys worked on the farm. They would have twenty [inaudible].

FH:Did you like this work? Was it a [very] hard job?

AM:Oh, no. [There] wasn't any work to it, just oversee the boys. A lot of them you got to like.

FH:I bet that was right.

AM:They were like good neighbor boys.

FH:Sure. Did you take your wife with you to Ogden?

AM:Yes.

FH:She lived there too. How long did you stay [with] that work?

AM:[We were there] about three years.

FH:When you were through, where did you go?

AM:We came back and I think I went to Grand Gulch [Mine] for six months. Soon after that, [World] War [I] started. From then on, I worked one place or another.

In 1942 I couldn't get much work anywhere. [Inaudible] at the Bureau of Mines. 00:40:00He sent word that he had a job for me. He told a man to bring me back. I said, "You tell Bill that I am crippled up and can't hold a job." The next week this man came and said, "Bill said even if you could crawl, he had a job for you." It was a job taking care of the lawn.

FH:[Inaudible]

AM:[Inaudible]

FH:Was he someone acquainted with you?

AM:Yes. He lived here in town.

FH:Did that make you feel pretty good to think that he wanted you that bad?

AM:I figured that there was some heavy work and I could not do much [inaudible]. 00:41:00I was kind of slow and crippled up with arthritis or from the lead at the Goodsprings Mine. I only stayed about six or eight months.

FH:Did you come back to Washington [City]?

AM:Yes. [We have been here] from then on. [Inaudible] and got on welfare. I got [to where] I couldn't do anything much on the farm. Too much [inaudible] work.

My boy [bought] the farm for $1,600.00. He stayed here until they [started] up this resort at Bloomington. He got $1,000.00 an acre.

FH:Wow!

AM:[Inaudible] him fifteen acres. He got $7,500.00 for one acre. [It was one acre] that they wanted. He kind of knew it, so he stuck them $7,500.00 for that acre and I had been trying to get $1,150.00 for sixty [acres].

FH:[Laughter] Too bad that you didn't hold on to it a little longer.

AM:I would have had to hold on to it for two years or more. I couldn't do it.

FH:[Inaudible] blessing that it stayed in the family, anyway.

AM:Yes.

FH:That should make you feel good. Even though it wasn't your own, it still was your own.

AM:Clyde [Milne] put [the money to good use. He bought [inaudible] in Enterprise [Washington County, Utah]. To my notion, [it was] better land than in Price [Bench]

FH:Is there anything that you did that you would like to tell about?

AM:I can't think of anything much. I worked on the Cottonwood Ditch and helped on the Price [Bench] Canal.

AHM:[Inaudible]

FH:Did you buy the two lots where you are living now?

AM:That was when we first were married. We paid $250.00.

FH:How old were you when you married?

AM:[I was] twenty-four [years old].

FH:Is there anything that you can think of [that] you learned from [your] life? 00:44:00Did you learn any lessons?

AM:I should have -- [inaudible] save and look after your health.

FH:Do you think it pays to be honest?

AHM:[Inaudible]

AM:I don't know if it does. [Laughter]

FH:Have you lived that way?

AM:Yes. [Inaudible]

FH:I have heard that you have been honest. Your reputation has preceded you. [Inaudible]

AM:Yes, I have been [inaudible] a time or two for being honest.

FH:You don't regret it, do you?

AM:No, [inaudible]. [Laughter]

FH:[Laughter] Would you like to give counsel and advice to your descendants? What would you like to tell them? You have had a lot of experience and you are a 00:45:00good counselor.

AM:To be honest and fair with people. Do a good turn when you can. [Inaudible] Make two friends and [inaudible]. One thing about my brother Joe: he pinched pretty hard with the first two trucks. Bad roads and there wasn't a mechanic between St. George and the railroad who knew how to replace a part that was broken. He had his father-in law, Isaac, Sr. and Warren Cox, a businessman in 00:46:00St. George sign with him for his first truck. After he had hard luck, they wanted to get out of it. So Joe came to me. I had thirty acres of land in Price Bench deeded over to me for [working] on the canal. Joe wanted me to sign [for] him on his truck.

FH:Was this so he could start the truck line?

AM:He had it started, but the two who signed [for it] wanted to get out. I hated to do it and I hated to tell him no, so I signed up with him [using] twenty acres of land for security on his first two trucks.

FH:[It] developed into a very fine [business] for this area.

AM:Yes, I will say so. [It] is still developing, getting bigger and larger.

FH:Is there anything else you would like to tell your grandchildren and great-grandchildren?

AM:I would have to think two or three days [about that].

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF]

FH:Would you play some tunes on your harmonica. I am sure the children would like that.

AM:[Plays the harmonica.]

AHM:[Inaudible]

FH:That was very good.

AM:[Plays the harmonica.]

FH:[Inaudible]

[END OF TAPE -- SIDE TWO]