Interview with Victora Sigridur (Tobiasson) Winsor

Victora Sigridur (Tobiasson) Winsor was interviewed on January 18, 1969 in Ivins, Washington County, Utah by Fielding H. Harris, a representative of Voices of Remembrance Foundation. She related her personal history of living in various 00:01:00parts of Iceland, Utah and Nevada.

FH:Would you please give your [full] name?

VW:My name is Victora Sigridur (Tobiasson) Winsor.

FH:[What is] your birth date?

VW:I was born June 18, 1891 in Reykjavik [Kjos, Gullbringusysla] Iceland.

FH:What was your father's name?

VW:[His name was] Tobias Tobiasson.

FH:[What was] your mother's [full] name?

VW:[Her name was] Elinborg (Petursson) [Tobiasson]. They say Petersdotter back there.

FH:That is different than what we know. Could you tell some of the [events] from your early childhood?

VW:The first thing that I remember was my brother just older than me. He was only a little over a year older than I was. I guess I was quite a chubby little girl. He was supposed to take care of me and keep me safe while we played. We went with other children down to the beach and climbed up on a big rock. I can remember the rock was huge in my eyes. Maybe it wouldn't be so big now. He wasn't trying to fish, but we were watching the fish in the water. It was clear and clean. Some of the little boys were trying to catch fish with a line. That 00:03:00was the first hook and line I ever saw. We stayed there so long that the tide came in and surrounded the rock. Mother had cautioned us not to get our feet wet; we must not get our feet wet. He was going to carry me across the rocks because he didn't think I could step from one rock to the other. There was [a] rock there that the bigger children stepped across and didn't get wet. He was going to carry me across them, but I was too heavy for him. [Laughter] He slipped in because the rocks were slippery and both [of us] got our feet wet. I remember that!

FH:[Did] you get more than your feet wet? [Laughter]

VW:[Laughter] We did. We were quite surefooted and didn't get very wet; only our 00:04:00feet and about up to [our] knees.

FH:[Were] you punished for that?

VW:I don't remember any punishment. He [received] a talking to for taking me out there and staying until the tide came in. He should [have] watched for the tide. When he [was] a little older, it must have been a year [later], he took sick and died. They took him to the hospital and he died.

FH:What was his name?

VW:[His name was] Ari Niels Tobiasson. When he went to the hospital, I had my doubts about him coming back. When he died in the hospital, I [decided that I] was not ever going to a hospital -- never. That gave me the idea that a hospital 00:05:00was a place to go to die.

FH:[Was that the] wrong place to go?

VW:Yes. The next [event] was when little Johnny "Shoemaker", we called him, Johnny Johansson, came to our place. He was about thirteen years old and knocked at our door. I don't remember whether mother or father opened the door. He wanted to come and stay with us a few days because his parents had been shipwrecked or something. I don't quite remember whether they were shipwrecked or what, but he was without parents. He wanted to stay there for a few days until he could find a place to live. Mother said she didn't think we could take him to keep him, but he could stay overnight. Father asked him a few questions 00:06:00about what he could do to help. Father had a leather [shop]. He was a shoemaker by trade and made and repaired saddles.

FH:[Did he do] all kinds of leatherwork?

VW:Yes. He had a shop where he did that. Sometimes he hired help when he was swamped with work. He took Johnny into the office that very night. In the summertime, it was long days up there. In the wintertime, it was very short days. They often worked late at night, or it seemed late when it was dark. He 00:07:00went in there right straight and started helping with the shoes and the leather work. He could even cut out soles and things like that at his tender age.

FH:How old was he?

VW:[He was] thirteen years old, if I remember right. He was [very] handy in the shop. He stayed one day, and then another day, and then another day, and finally he just continued to stay. Father had already joined the Mormon church [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints] before that. He taught him the gospel there in the shop. I don't remember just how many years it was that he stayed, but it seemed to me it was at least three years or more. There was a ship going to take Mormons to Utah. He joined the church and decided to go to Utah. I didn't want him to go to Utah. He used to play with me; he would hide in one of the [cow hides]. Father had great big hides, whole cow hides. He would go inside that cow hide and I couldn't see him. [Laughter] He would hide from me 00:08:00that way and I would have to find him. He would make little noises and I would finally find him. When he went to go to America, I rebelled. I didn't want him to go to America. When the ship sailed and they wouldn't let me go with him, I threw myself on the beach and cried. I remember I cried out loud. They made fun of me for crying out loud; a girl, making such a noise. I decided I will never cry out loud again. They made too much fun of me. [Laughter]

He came to America and built a home. He was out here two years before we came. He learned the language and built a two-room house. When we came, we went to his home to live. He left for Iceland on a [LDS] mission just two weeks before we 00:09:00[arrived] here. We passed on the way somewhere. It took us a month to get here and he left two weeks before we came. I never did see him anymore. That was the last time I ever saw him.

FH:Didn't he come back from his mission?

VW:Yes, but by that time, I was down here. Neils was in Cleveland [Emery County, Utah]. I don't know whether Neils saw him either.

FH:Is he dead now?

VW:He went to Canada. He came home from his mission and father had gone to Canada. Just as soon as he reported [home from] his mission, he sold his place and went to Canada.

FH:[Did] he join your father up there?

VW:I am telling his story. Later, he went on another mission. While there, he 00:10:00found him a Danish wife. Maybe he met her before; I don't know. He is dead now.

FH:That is an interesting sidelight to your story. Tell about your home life and [education] in Iceland.

VW:I remember that before we took sick, father had a friend, an old man. My mother wasn't very well either. It was before the triplets were born. She taught us part of the time, but this old man used to take Neils and me on his knee, one on each knee. I remember him holding a book in front of us, showing us the letters in the book and telling us the name of the letters.

FH:This was a man?

VW:An old man. I don't remember his name.

FH:Was this part of the way you [received] your training in high school?

VW:That was the way they started children in school. They taught them at home before they sent them to school. They were supposed to be twelve years old at least [to start school].

FH:[Did] you have to learn your letters and a few things like that?

VW:You had to learn to read and count. We had to be ready for a higher school.

FH:It is a little different than that now-a-days. What prompted your father to come to America?

VW:The church.

FH:[Did] he feel he wanted to come for the church?

VW:He wanted to come before little Johnny "Shoemaker" came. Father waited to earn money for him to come. It takes money to come to America. He had joined the church, if I remember right, seven years before we emigrated. Mother didn't join the church at that time, but when Johnny "Shoemaker" went back on his mission, 00:12:00he converted her.

FH:Then your father was compensated a great deal for taking in Johnny, wasn't he?

VW:Yes.

FH:[Did] your father come to America and leave your mother in Iceland?

VW:[He left her there] with four children, the two oldest and the two youngest ones.

FH:How many children were there all together?

VW:There were twelve [children]. Sigurlina was the oldest. Then Tobias [inaudible]. We called him "Tobeeus" and for short he was called "Tobby." Then there was Olafia Petrina. Olafia was a twin. I learned later that she was a twin to "Tobby", but it isn't that way on our family group sheet. It gives a 00:13:00different date. If he was a twin, the girl must have died. But Olafia Petrina died too, later. Then was Ari Niels. That is the one [who] was a little more than a year older than me. Then myself, Sigridur. I was named for my grandmother, my father's mother. I was born just a week before my father's birthday so he named me for his mother. Then there was Njalls. That is the one we call Neils now. After we came to America, he took the name of Neils. I called him "Njelly" and people called him "Nelly." He didn't like that [and] wouldn't have that name.

FH:It can be a problem to come from [another] country and have the names work out just right.

VW:Then, there was Armania Hraunros. Ingigerdur Inga Gerther was the sister younger than me. Then Armania Hraunros. Then the triplets. Their names were Elinborg Siguros and Bjarni Oskar. The third one died before he was named.

FH:Did he live a short time?

VW:Yes. The youngest one was [inaudible]. That is all of them.

FH:Can you tell anything about your father's parents?

VW:I have never seen my father's father. He was drowned in a fjord.

FH:Was he a fisherman?

VW:Yes, he was a fisherman.

FH:Do you know their names?

VW:Yes, his name was Sigurdson Tobias. My grandmother was Sigrid Magnusson (Magnusdotter) [Tobias].

FH:Can you tell more about your father's activities? What was he like? Did you 00:16:00say he was sick a lot before you left Iceland?

VW:Yes, he was a fisherman at first and he got so he couldn't go on the ocean. It made him sick. He just couldn't keep well and finally he contracted TB [tuberculosis]. It was TB that was killing him when he came to America. He was sick a great deal of the time and a lot of the time he was in bed. While he was in bed he knitted seaman's mittens for the fishermen. I was just a little girl and someone came to see if [he] had mittens to sell. He lifted up his mattress and there was a whole pile of mittens. I wondered when on earth he knit all of 00:17:00them. He tucked them under his mattress when he [finished] them. When he was well enough to work, he worked in his shop and made shoes, mended shoes and made saddles, especially side-saddles for women.

FH:[If] he was [very] sick and had tuberculosis, it is hard for me to understand how he could come to America.

VW:That is [when] the doctors told him [that] he couldn't. They told him he couldn't come to America -- that they would send him back [to Iceland] when he [arrived in] New York [City, New York].

FH:I don't see how he even got here.

VW:That is where my first testimony came in. When he left, he bid mother good-bye. I was nine years old that day and --.

FH:The day you left, you were nine?

VW:Yes. Little [children] have big ears. Mother said, "If you go, you will just be buried in the ocean. You know you will. You can't go on the ocean." It made him sick. He said, "We will let that be a testimony between you and me. If Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and if this church is true, I will get there alright and I will be well when I get to New York [City]. If it isn't true and I am making a big mistake, I hope I will be buried in the ocean. The elder will take care of the children."

FH:For goodness sake!

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VW:We had been out on the ocean for three days [and] there came a terrible 00:19:00storm. We just wallowed in the waves for the next three days. The ship was rocking to and fro and back and forth. The waves were dashing over the deck. It was a small ship, a steamer. I remember that part because I saw the engines. We had a terrible storm. The people had to be shut down in and the deck sealed over so the water wouldn't go into the ship and fill the ship. Some of [the water] did spray in before they shut us in. The women and even some of the men were screaming. I thought: how silly. I laughed at them. One of the women talked to me in Icelandic, and I have to interpret. "Would you like to drown in this 00:20:00ocean? That is what we are going to do in just a little while." I said, "I only have to die once. I have been [very] sick and was supposed to die and I didn't. I don't think I am going to die now. I don't think we are going to go down, because we are going to America to the Mormon church."

On the second day the captain came down to talk to them. He [spoke] in Icelandic, because I understood him. He said, "We are not going to perish in this storm. We will weather it through and we will get through it alright 00:21:00because we have a Mormon elder on our ship. We had him wait three weeks for this voyage to ensure our safety in going to England. Calm your feelings and stop your screaming. It will be alright because I will assure that we are not going to be buried. The Lord doesn't shipwreck His missionaries when He sends them out." Whether he was a Mormon or not, I don't know, but that is what he said.

FH:Were there ship captains who knew this?

VW:Yes, he had had elders go [sail] with him before and he knew this storm was due. It took us a week to get to England. We got off at Liverpool.

FH:Those storms in [the] North Sea can be treacherous.

VW:Yes. My brother, Neils, was quite sick. While the storm was rocking the ship, 00:22:00it was lots of fun to double up our feet and our hands and just roll over and over and roll back as the ship rocked. The women corrected us for that. They said, "You ought to know better than to play like that when we are in so much danger." I said, "What difference does it make if it is danger or not, as long as we have fun." [Laughter]

FH:It sounds like you had a wonderful attitude about it.

VW:It didn't matter to me. We were in England a week and I understood that we were waiting for Elder Johnsson's money to come to pay for all of our [expenses]. I think it was from the [church's] Emigration Fund. I think that is what brought us from England to America. It took us another week to come on a larger steamer from England to America. We did some sightseeing while we were in England, too.

FH:[Around] Liverpool?

VW:No, we went from Liverpool to London [England] on the train. We were in the mission home there. They printed some kind of a paper there at that time. The 00:23:00lady [who] was folding the papers spoke Icelandic. She had me come up and help her fold papers. I learned to fold papers just fine. That interested me and I enjoyed it. I guess my clothes were kind of old-fashioned. There was a lady there. President Lund was president of the mission. He was kind of old and so 00:24:00was she. She took me to the store and bought me a new dress. I remember that. When we got to America they took father in first. Elder Johnsson was returning home; I guess he didn't have to have much inspection. They took father in for inspection. He was in there a long time. They took him through all kinds of rigamarole, I guess. I don't know what they did; they didn't let me see. We children played around. Elder Johnsson was in where father was part of the time, and part of the time [he] saw [to it] that we behaved ourselves. When father came out, he was all smiles. He said, "I am not sick anymore."

FH:Wasn't that a wonderful blessing?

VW:He was cured completely [and] never had TB anymore. He lived over half his 00:25:00life in America.

FH:How did your mother feel when she heard about that?

VW:That was one thing that helped her to join the church later. Some people miss their opportunities. When she [was] ready to come to America, she took sick and she died [and] was not permitted to come.

FH:She never did come [to America]?

VW:She never did come. I know of another incident that happened a similar way. Sister Graves, Grandma Graves' father did the same. He was not permitted to come because he missed his first chance.

FH:I think that's a wonderful story about your father.

VW:That was my first testimony. I didn't know anything about the church, but I knew that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.

FH:You had a testimony of that.

VW:Yes. I thought the only [thing] for me to do was to learn the gospel, learn what the church is and learn what to do.

FH:After you [went] through customs in New York [City], [did] you come west?

VW:We came across the United States on the train, landed in Salt Lake [City, Salt Lake County, Utah] and then went on to Price [Carbon County] Utah. Elder Johnsson's family was there waiting for us. They took us to Cleveland; that's where he was from.

FH:Cleveland is twenty miles south of Price [in Carbon County].

VW:Yes.

FH:Did you have any place to live when you arrived in Cleveland?

VW:Just what we had. We didn't have much money, either, but Johnny "Shoemaker" had built this home. He came with the same elder, I guess. I don't remember whether it was the same elder or not. We came with Elder Johnsson on his second 00:27:00mission. Father stayed with them for a week or so. We got there on July 20, [1900] and in four days was the Twenty-Fourth of July --

FH:Yes, you had a celebration.

VW:-- and we had a celebration. Elder Johnsson had a girl just my age and a boy Neils's age. They dressed me up in one of Groa's, his daughter's dresses, and took us to the celebration. When we got there, it was a children's dance, part of it, and we went to the children's dance. I thought that was funny; the children all knew how to dance, but I didn't. There was a big girl, Minnie 00:28:00Lytle, [who] lived there at that time. She wanted me to dance with her. Groa, Elder Johnsson's daughter, was right by the side of me and could understand English. She could understand Icelandic too. She said, "That woman wants you to dance with her." I wouldn't dance with her. Quite a little while later, there was a young lady came over, a big girl. She must have been about sixteen [years old] and wanted me to dance with her. She pulled me right out on the floor and I tried to dance with her. It was only a few minutes [before] I could dance. She showed me how. Then, Minnie came back over and said, "Why wouldn't you dance with me?" I couldn't understand her, but Groa told me what she said. I said, "I just didn't want to." The four days was right straight. The next day, I think, I went to live with Minnie. It was only [for] a little while. It must not have been quite the next day, because the Johnsson's had bees. They went to take honey out of the bees. Both Elder Johnsson and his wife dressed up funny to go 00:29:00to the bees with a veil on. I went down to see what they were doing and their children told me not to go down there. They called me back to not go. I wanted to see the bees; I wanted to see what they looked like. I hadn't seen bees. I went down there and one of them stung me on the eye. My eye swelled shut. That was my first introduction to bees. That was what I got for not minding. [Laughter]

FH:[Was] your father's family, [those] he brought with him, put in different homes?

VW:Yes. I went with Minnie to Scofield [Carbon County, Utah]. Neils didn't go to anybody else; he stayed with father until father went to Canada. The bishop, or somebody, advised him to leave the boy there because father didn't have any money to live on. He went to Raymond, Canada in 1901 when they were settling 00:30:00Raymond. We came here in 1900. When he got off the train, he was held up and the fellow took [his] last $10.00 from him. He had $10.00 in his pocket and the fellow took that. He saw this note written to the bishop; he [also] had that in his pocket. The robber put that back in his pocket and kept the $10.00. [He] let him go to the bishop. Neils and I were separated. He was in Cleveland and by that time I was in St. George.

FH:Tell about [your] trip to St. George. How did [it] happen that you came here?

VW:I went to Scofield first with Minnie and [John M.] "Johnny" Lytle. He had a 00:32:00job there doing carpenter work. We were there for two or three months, I guess, and then they disagreed on something. I never heard them [disagree]. I thought they were alright. I didn't know they disagreed. They separated and I went back to my father in Cleveland. There was another lady, Mrs. Sorenson, [who] wanted 00:33:00me to come tend her babies. I guess that was what she wanted me for; that [is] what I did and [some] chores. I don't know that I did anything wrong. I don't remember [about] it, but she used to tell me. I learned a good deal of the language before I came back. Minnie was good to teach me the language when I 00:34:00went to live with Minnie [(Alger) Lytle]. Mrs. Andrew Sorenson, I think her name was. She used to tell me --

[END OF TAPE ONE -- SIDE ONE]

VW:-- the stories about the devil and I didn't like that. I had a wart on my arm here. I don't show the scar now. I was washing dishes one day. She came in [and] she must have done it with her left hand. She cut that wart off my arm with her thumbnail and it bled like everything. I had to quit washing dishes because the blood just ran in a stream. I didn't like that either. I thought she could have told me if she wanted to do that, but she didn't. She did it quickly. I guess 00:35:00she thought she was doing me a favor. There was snow on the ground then; it was wintertime. I didn't stay there very long because I didn't like it. I liked her children; she had two little children. Her little girl was [very] nice. I ran away and went back to father. I wouldn't stay there. When spring came, "Johnny" came to Cleveland, said they had gone back together and brought me down to St. George. We came in a buckboard all the way from Cleveland to St. George.

FH:It was a long trip down here.

VW:How else would you have gotten here? There wasn't any train [that] came down this far. We came in a buckboard all the way. He tried to teach me to eat tomatoes. I didn't like tomatoes. He told me to put sugar on them. He had canned 00:36:00tomatoes and told me to put sugar on them. I could eat [some] a little that way, but I still didn't like tomatoes.

FH:Have you gotten over that?

VW:I can drink tomato juice now, or I can eat tomato soup, but I really don't like tomatoes.

FH:You came into St. George. Were you getting some [education] in America, a little bit?

VW:Not yet.

FH:Is St. George where you started school?

VW:No, [it was] in Hebron [Washington County, Utah]. [It] was spring when I came to St. George. I must have been there about a month, because on May 7, 1901 I was baptized in the St. George Temple.

FH:That was a choice experience to remember.

VW:Yes. There were several other children baptized in the St. George Temple that day. They baptized all the children in the St. George Temple for years, long after I was married. We brought our children up from Logandale [Nevada] to be baptized in the St. George Temple. My husband [Walter Fay Winsor] was baptized 00:37:00in the St. George Temple.

They ["Johnny" and Minnie Lytle] couldn't get along together so they separated again and she went home to her parents in Hebron. She took me with her and moved right in with her parents and I was [like] one of their family for awhile. They were very poor [and] I realized they couldn't afford to keep me. Finally, John M. Lytle, her first husband, went out to Uncle Frank Winsor. When he went there he asked him about it. They had a baby at that time that they had adopted, one of the Bishop twins. James Bishop was [the twins] father's name. He wanted to know if they didn't want a girl to be a baby tender. "She doesn't speak very 00:38:00plain," he said. He described me to them and they decided they just as well take me. That was about a week before they came after me. No, it was more than a week after he asked them, because their baby took sick and died. They came out to Hebron, got me, took me to St. George and I got there on Neils' birthday, February 8, [1902].

School was nearly out then. That was when Aunt Effie [Winsor] came. I went to Aunt Effie's place, but [for] my schooling I lived with Alger's. Minnie Lytle was an Alger before she was married. I started school with their children. They 00:39:00had a girl [who] was in second grade. [She was] just younger than me. She and I were learning to read words on the blackboard. They claimed that I was in the first grade, but I don't know. I didn't know the difference. They taught me words with some of the other children. It was only a little while until they put me in the same class with her and she was in the second grade. I was only a month or so in school.

FH:[Did] you learn quickly and were able to go right along?

VW:Yes. When I came down here to live with Aunt Effie and Uncle Frank [Winsor] I was in the second grade. [I had] a special tutor up there [because] they had a small school. Children learn faster in a smaller school, believe it or not.

FH:If they have a good teacher, they do.

VW:Yes. It was only a little while [before] I could read as well as their little girl in the second grade. I could read in the book. I never was a good reader, but I enjoyed being able to read as good as she did. When I came down here to Aunt Effie and Uncle Frank's to live in St. George, they started me in school about a week after I came down. They wanted to get acquainted with me first. I was started in the second grade. I was in the second grade a little while and they put me in the third grade. I took the first three grades the first year. I still wasn't up with my age, and I wanted to be with my age. During the latter part of the year, they didn't promote me out of the third grade because I had 00:41:00already taken [skipped] two grades. When I started the next fall, they promoted me into the fourth grade. I was only there a little while. A. B. Christensen was the principal. He took me to the blackboard and had me do some number work. He was the one that taught me long division. He had the teachers put me in the fourth grade. At the end of the year, I was promoted to the fifth grade. Then I was up with my age [and] I was more satisfied.

FH:I think that was remarkable for you to be able to do that so quickly.

VW:I didn't have much to do other than to study. I studied at home. Frank was [very] good to help me read. I didn't want to play with the other children because they laughed at me. I didn't say my words right and they kept asking me silly questions. They asked me where my grandpa [John M.] Lytle lived, and I said, "In Diamond Walley [Washington County, Utah]." They would ask my name and I would say "Wictora." They laughed!

FH:Children [will] do this.

VW:I wouldn't play with the other children and that gave me more time to study.

FH:It helped you in the long run.

VW:Yes.

FH:How far did you go in school?

VW:I was twelve years old, I guess, when I ran a nail in my foot. I was playing 00:43:00hop-scotch with the other children. Somebody left a board with a nail in it and I ran the nail clear through my foot between my toes. The teacher wanted me to go home, but I didn't want to go home right then. I wanted to wait until school was out. I had to walk home anyway and I didn't want to go home without the other children. This was at recess [and] I walked home after school. I put my arm around my brother's neck and a neighbor boy's neck and they helped me walk home. By that time, it was quite sore. I was out of school for six weeks with that.

FH:[Did] it get infection in it?

VW:I nearly had lock-jaw. They promoted me just the same [and] I didn't miss my grade. They sent books home and told me to study my lessons at home. When I was fourteen years old I moved to Enterprise [Washington County, Utah and] I finished my grade school [education] up there. I was the first student in Enterprise to graduate from the eighth grade.

FH:[You were] the first student from Enterprise to graduate from the eighth grade?

VW:Yes. I didn't go to school for a few years. I was quite sick when I was in my teens. I wasn't very strong and I got kind of thin. It was cold out there and I 00:45:00had rheumatism [very] bad. I had rheumatic fever and that kept me from going [to school]. When I [was] better, I went to [school in] St. George. They gave you credits in units then. Do they now? I guess they do. I took five units the first year. The next spring I was called to take kindergarten.

FH:[Did] you [receive] a call from the church [for] special training so that you could teach kindergarten?

VW:Yes, [to] teach kindergarten children, especially in the Sunday school class. Before that, I taught the older class in Sunday school.

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FH:Tell a little bit about your father's character and personality that you do remember.

VW:Neils had the idea that father used to drink occasionally, but I never saw 00:46:00him drunk, only once in my life. I did see him drunk once, but that was the only time.

FH:Maybe that's why Neils [had] the idea. He might have seen him and thought he did it a lot.

VW:I guess. Neils was quite a bit younger than me, but father didn't drink. He used snuff in the shop. Some of the others used tobacco [and] some of them smoked. He said he would quit if they would. He badgered them to quit. I remember that because he had me shining the shoes. He wouldn't send shoes out that weren't shined. He wouldn't send dirty shoes out [after] he had fixed [them]. I could hear what was going on. He badgered them to quit and they all quit smoking. Then he quit his snuff. He kept The Word of Wisdom from then on. Icelanders drink lots of coffee. My mother used to have the coffee pot on all 00:47:00the time. I think she lived on coffee.

FH:Did a lot of the Icelandic people do this?

VW:Yes. She was [very] thin. I guess you wouldn't get very fat on coffee. I am sure she drank it five times a day, but she was even-tempered as far as I remember. She never spanked her children. I don't remember ever seeing her spank any of her children. She never spanked me.

FH:Was she kind of strict with you? Did she require that you do certain things?

VW:Yes, but she talked to us, just gave us instructions. My big sister ["Lina"] would slap me and then she would talk to her. I know she slapped me once. I don't remember what is was for, but mother got after her for slapping me so much. I can remember that. I was [very] tender-headed and she was continually 00:48:00combing my hair. I used to cry to have my hair cut. They cut hair in the shop; the men would take a day off, or an afternoon, and cut all the boys' and mens' hair. I cried to have my hair cut so "Lina" [Sigurlina] couldn't comb my hair.

FH:Was your home a happy home?

VW:Yes, as far as I know it was.

FH:Were there faith-promoting experiences in your life that you think you should talk about?

VW:You mean before I was married or after?

FH:Either one.

VW:I had rheumatism so bad that I got heart trouble from the rheumatic fever. 00:49:00While I was taking my kindergarten course, the lady I lived with insisted on me going to the doctor to see what was the matter with me. She said there was something the matter with me. I didn't eat enough to suit her. I didn't think her children were very hearty either, but she took me to the doctor -- Old Dr. [Donald Alpine] McGregor, the father of these McGregor's [Dr. Lorenzo Watson and Dr. Alpine Watson McGregor]. He tested me and said I had leakage of the heart. She wanted to know if that was very serious and if it could be cured. He said, "No, it isn't very often cured. She could live three months and if she had good care she could live three years."

I was engaged to be married. When I went back, I tried to break the engagement. 00:50:00I said there is no sense in getting married if I am just going to die. That is no benefit. He talked me out of it. He said, "We will go to the temple and just have a special blessing." At that time, they baptized people for their health sometimes, too.

FH:Oh?

VW:When we went to the temple to be married, we decided to not get too tired. It took two days to come down from Enterprise and two days to go back. We decided to stay and go to the temple three days while we were here. They only had one session a day then. The first day we went to the temple, I was baptized for my health and had a special blessing for my health.

FH:Do you remember who gave you the blessing?

VW:[It was] President David H. Cannon.

FH:[He was] the temple president.

VW:Yes. We did that before we went through the session; then we went through the session. We weren't married that day. The next day we went again and the third day we were married. That made it so we were married on my birthday, [June 18, 1914].

FH:Your birthday is a [very] important event in your life.

VW:I [received] my own endowments on June 16th, but I was married on June 18th. I have never had heart trouble since, as far as I know.

FH:Wonderful! There are a lot of people in this world [who] wouldn't believe that.

VW:I know it. That was why I thought there wasn't any need for telling it.

FH:Oh, but there is. We need to let your descendants know this kind of faith.

VW:The doctor said that I was too hemrical. I wouldn't have any children anyway 00:52:00[because] I hemorrhaged so easily. I never did have a miscarriage that I know of.

FH:[Did] you have eleven children?

VW:I had ten children, one pair of twins, and I adopted one [child].

FH:Before we go further, let's talk a little more now about some of the things that you did during these growing-up years just to have fun. What did you do during those years?

VW:Mostly I played marbles with my brother [Neils] and he would play jacks with me. He could beat me playing marbles, but I could beat him playing jacks.

FH:Did you enjoy dancing?

VW:Yes, after I learned how. I wouldn't go [to dances] when I was younger, 00:53:00because I figured they would laugh at me. I didn't do any dancing to speak of. I didn't go to children's dances in St. George when I was a child. I wouldn't go to their parties [either] because they made fun of me.

FH:[Did] they make fun of [the way] you talked?

VW:Yes. I was fourteen years old when I went to Enterprise, almost fourteen. We [arrived] there on April 5th and my birthday was on June 18th. It wasn't long after I [arrived] there until I started dancing. At first, I wouldn't dance up there either. They had dances in Primary there. I taught Primary when I was fifteen years old and had to help.

FH:[Did] you teach Primary when you were fifteen years old?

VW:Yes.

FH:Were you were active in church all these years?

VW:Yes. When I was fourteen years old, Mutual [Improvement Association] started in the fall. That first year I was in Enterprise I was old enough to go to Mutual. Then they didn't let the girls go to Mutual until they were fourteen years old. They put me in as secretary of the Mutual right straight that fall. The Mutual minutes had been neglected in Hebron. The people from Hebron moved down to Enterprise. The job was given to me to hunt up those back minutes, get them all written down and send them in to the head of the church, give those to the bishop and the bishop would do it. I was secretary of the Mutual for several years. When I was fifteen years old I was teaching Primary [and] when I was 00:55:00sixteen years old I was teaching Sunday school.

FH:They did keep you busy.

VW:There were only a few people up there.

FH:Do you think this was, perhaps, because they recognized in you someone who understood the gospel? Had you been studying?

VW:Yes. I read The Book of Mormon to learn to read because it was easy to read.

FH:Wonderful! That is a good book to learn on.

VW:Yes, it is. It's a [very] good book to learn on. I enjoyed it.

FH:[Did] you enjoy music? Did you learn to play the accordion?

VW:I [had] learned to play the accordion before I left Iceland.

FH:Did you have an accordion that you brought with you?

VW:Father played the accordion.

FH:Did you have one of your own?

VW:Neils had one of his own. Neils was given one when he had a birthday, before we came to America. He got just a little one. Father's was a big one, according 00:56:00to me. My legs were very small. Mother used to get me to stay in the house and not run outside. She would put me way back on the bed, hand me father's accordion, and tell me I could play it if I would play it way back there. I just made a noise on it, I couldn't play it.

FH:No wonder you learned to play.

VW:I had to learn!

FH:[It was] self-preservation. [Laughter]

VW:I couldn't play the accordion if I didn't play tunes.

FH:Was this before you were nine years old?

VW:Yes.

FH:[Did] you play that accordion for some dances here?

VW:[I played] in Enterprise [and] I played for a dance in Santa Clara [Washington County, Utah] once. I started to tell you how I got [my] first accordion. When I lived with Algers in Hebron, there was a man [who] lived 00:57:00across the street from them whose name was Walter Bowler. He had an accordion. I don't remember whether I ever told him I could play the accordion or not. Walter Bowler got an accordion and I could hear him playing the accordion. I said, "There is an accordion over there playing." Minnie said, "How do you know that is an accordion?" I said, "I guess I know an accordion when I hear it. He can't play the tunes very good, either." [Laughter] Minnie told that to "Johnny" . This was after they were separated. When Christmas came, we had a Christmas tree in Enterprise and presents on the Christmas tree. Santa Claus was a returned missionary that I didn't know. I hadn't seen him many times. [It] was in Hebron; 00:58:00I said Enterprise, but I meant Hebron. He said, "Here is something; it's a funny looking thing and it makes a noise. But if there is nobody in this house that can play it, I don't see why Santa Claus should bring a thing like this. This is for somebody [who] can play it. Is there anybody in this house [who] can play this thing?" I raised my hand. He said, "You will have to show me. I will have to hear it, because Santa Claus sent this to the one [who] can play it." I played him an Icelandic tune and he gave me the accordion. That was my first accordion.

FH:That is a [very] nice story. I would like you to go back now to [the time] 00:59:00when you met your husband-to-be. Can you tell how that happened?

VW:The first time I went to Enterprise, I was just a [youngster]. I guess I must have been about twelve or thirteen years old. They were living at Calf Spring [south of Hebron, Utah], I believe. His father [A. Perry Winsor] was Uncle Frank's half-brother. Uncle Frank said, "We have to go up and see Perry and Lydia [Winsor] to see their family while we are here." They were on their way to Hebron. That was when there was only about three or four families in Enterprise, We went up to Calf Springs. Walter [Fay Winsor] wasn't grown then. He was older than I was [and] quite a bit bigger than I was. That is where I first met him. His hair was quite long and it was just as kinky as kinky could be. His hair was 01:00:00so curly. I thought he looked funny with his hair curled up so tight. He had a sister my age; her name was Zenetta [Winsor] and a sister [Mary Winsor] younger than her. It was in the spring of the year. They didn't go to Hebron and Enterprise when it was cold weather with a team, not very often, unless they went freighting. He gathered what he called skunk posies. I don't know any other name for them. [He] told me to suck the honey out of them. They would pull the flower out and put the other end in your mouth and suck the honey right out. It was sweet. That was the first time I met him. Then when we moved to Enterprise, he was a big boy then.

FH:How long until you really [were] interested in him?

VW:I wasn't interested in any boy.

FH:No? [Did] this come later? How did that happen?

VW:He went to Logan [Cache County, Utah] to school. We always danced together before that. Enterprise had a dance every Friday night. That was regular [and] expected. There was something wrong somewhere if we didn't have a dance Friday night. We didn't have much amusement. We didn't have picture shows then [and] we had to make our own amusement. He always danced with me and so did all the other boys. It didn't make any difference; all of them danced with me. I didn't refuse any of them unless it was a stranger coming in. If [he] was a stranger, I wouldn't dance with him. I was always cranky that way. When he came back from 01:02:00school, we started going together. We went together for quite

awhile. Some of the places we went: we went up to Enterprise Reservoir with a crowd. He always drove the team. He had a good team, rather his father did. One time, his cousin, Laura Harmon came down to visit. She was a new girl and one of our cousins. We had to show her the reservoir, have a boat ride and fish. On the way up she said, "I found a lot of cousins down here." He said, "You ought to come again in about ten or twenty years; you will find a lot more cousins!" [Laughter] I always remember that, because that was funny.

Another time we went to the Enterprise Reservoir for Easter. We went on Saturday and we [were to] back in time for Sunday school, Sunday morning. I had a class to teach and some of the other girls did too. We stayed up there all night, which was late when they got through with their fishing and boat riding. The next morning the boys, Walter and Israel [inaudible] especially Israel Adair who was his chum said, "There is not going to be any boat riding this morning, nor fishing, because we are going home for Sunday school." Two of the younger boys took two of the girls out and got a boat; they disobeyed. One of them was the bishop's daughter, one of them was Walter's sister [Zenetta] and one was his 01:04:00younger brother [Murkins Winsor]. Walter and Israel got the horses hooked up and the wagon down by the reservoir over the same road we went up the day before. It hadn't rained during the night. They got almost to the reservoir in the same tracks they [used] the night before and called to the [young people] in the boat. "We are going home. If you don't get out, we will leave you." I don't know what they did. I know the boys were sitting on the seat [of the boat] and the 01:05:00girls had a board across the boat and sat on that. The boat rocked and dumped the girls into the reservoir. They boys jumped out and got the girls out.

[END OF TAPE ONE - SIDE TWO]

VW:They were wet all over. They were completely soaked. They put the girls in the wagon and put the quilts around them to keep them [warm]. We had a campfire and they stood around that a little while until they decided it was too cold. The boys got the boat out and lifted it into the wagon. We all got in the wagon and down went the wagon, clear to the hubs in the mud. The horses were clear to 01:07:00their bellies. There we were, soaked girls and boys. The horses couldn't pull [and] they had to get the horses out first. They unhooked the horses and dug them out. Then they had to dig the wagon out. We didn't get to Sunday school that morning. We didn't ever go to the reservoir for Easter any more; that was our last Easter trip.

FH:It was a good lesson to learn. It was a good thing no one was injured.

VW:No, nobody was hurt. We called it trouble anyway. We went to the reservoir lots of times, but not for Sunday.

FH:[Did] your crowd have a lot of good times?

VW:Yes, we always went as a group.

FH:When you finally decided to get married, what were your plans? [Did] you go to St. George to get married?

VW:Yes, we were married in the St. George Temple.

FH:Where did you plan to live afterwards?

VW:[We were going to live] in Enterprise. Walter was working out on the dry farm, out towards Modena [Iron County, Utah]. He had a dry farm out there. His two brothers had acreages there and he farmed all of it. He shipped the first carload of rye from Modena. Finally, they [became] disinterested in that [and] wanted to farm down around the point. We went down there for awhile. [It was] down by Holt's Well. His brother, Lou [Winsor], wanted him to work there for 01:09:00awhile. That fixed it so we could quit dry farming. Finally, we decided to move to Moapa Valley [Nevada].

Neils' wife died in Canada. He brought his five children down to Enterprise for me to take care of. Right after that we moved to Logandale.

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF]

FH:Will you tell us now about your own children? Did you have three [children] by the time you [moved] to Moapa Valley?

VW:Yes.

FH:You took five of your brother's children [with you]. Talk about your own children now.

VW:Our oldest one was born May 2, 1915. We were married June 18, 1914. Several days before [he was born] we were looking for him, but that was alright. I had quite a bad cold when he was born. On May 2, [1915] we had seven inches of snow in Enterprise. He went to find the midwife. We didn't have a doctor. She had 01:11:00already come home. We thought she was in Central [Washington County, Utah], but she had come home a couple of days before. I was in labor from early morning until he was born at 6:00 in the evening. We named him LaVar [J. Winsor]. He was a promising child [and] a big fellow. He weighed twelve pounds.

FH:He was half-grown! [Laughter]

VW:[Laughter] I learned better with each of them after that. The next one [Vasco Gilbert Winsor] was eleven pounds. [Laughter]

FH:You just naturally had big babies.

VW:Yes, I had to starve myself. I had lots of milk for them. I was greatly blessed. The doctor told me I wouldn't have any children. The blessing in the 01:12:00temple that President Cannon [gave me said] I would have a big family. He knew more about it than the doctor did.

FH:He had the Lord to help him.

VW:Yes. This boy was [very] bright in school. He liked history and genealogy. Of course, that is history too. He [LaVar] married Nellie May Roseberry and they have fourteen children.

FH:Where do they live?

VW:[They live in] Logandale. The next one was another boy. He was born on December 1, [1916]. He should have [been born] on Thanksgiving day. Thanksgiving was on November 27th that year, but he waited three days and came on December 1st. We named him Vasco Gilbert [Winsor]. He is a mechanic. LaVar is an 01:13:00electrician. Vasco wasn't [very] studious in school. The teachers said they never could tell when an airplane might fly over the heads of the children in their classes, or a tractor come under the seats. They would have liked us to have some influence over him to get better grades in school -- study instead of playing with his tractors and his airplanes. We talked to him about it and he said, "There is no need of me studying. The girls are just dying to tell all that they know. When they get through telling it, I can pass the examination. 01:14:00That is all we need, isn't it?" [Laughter] Finally, the principal, [inaudible] was the principal then. It was about the seventh grade. [The principal] said, "As long

as some of these boys are so anxious for airplanes and tractors, we will have an airplane show here. We will take half a day off to have an airplane show." [Laughter] All the boys enjoyed that [idea]. The day before the airplane show, Vasco and his friend sat up all night at our place to making airplanes [out of balsa wood, paper and rubber bands and] perfected them so that they would go around the room. They could make an airplane go around the room several times 01:15:00without stopping and without hitting the wall. They sure enjoyed themselves.

FH:He was just naturally a mechanic.

VW:Yes, he was a natural mechanic. He married Ila Adams, the daughter of Louis and Lillian Adams of Logandale. They have two daughters [and] now they have four grandsons and a granddaughter. I didn't tell you that LaVar has twenty-one grandchildren.

The next one is Victor [Tobias Winsor]. When Vasco was born, I had a setback and was pretty sick. [Inaudible] They didn't expect me to live and I knew [it]. He 01:16:00was born on December 1st and I was still in bed on January 1st. When I was so low with him, I had a dream, I guess you would call it a dream. A couple of angels came with a baby in a basket. He looked up at me and smiled. One of the angels said, "This is your next one." I had to get well.

FH:You knew you were not going to leave [die] then.

VW:I had kind of given up. Seeing the baby and he was so pretty and curly-headed, I got well. He was a bright little fellow and pretty. He was a [very] pretty baby; he was when I saw him two years before [also]. We called him 01:17:00Victor Tobias. Before he was born I told my husband, "If it is a girl, I am going to call her Fay." When it was a boy, he said, "It is my turn to name him." He named him Victor. I said, "Victor is alright." He wanted to name him Victor Tobiasson. I said, "Leave the 'son' off and just call him Tobias."

When he started school, he could outrun all the boys in his grade. The bigger boys kind of overdid it with him and had him running too much until [he] ruptured on both sides. I know we had to keep him out of school and take care of that. Our neighbor told us what to do for him. She said [to] have him lie on his 01:18:00back and bandage [with] a cotton [pad] dipped in rubbing alcohol and alum. [We] had him lay on his back and he [could] play, read and do things like that. A little fellow like that was hard to keep down. He was [very] good to stay down. We kept him out of school for a couple of weeks and thought he was a lot better and could go to school. We didn't say anything to the teacher about it. She knew what was the matter, but right straight he ruptured again. We had to keep him out for six weeks and have him lie like that and take care of him so it wouldn't 01:19:00come out again. When we took him back to school, we asked the teacher to help us, to not let him out at recess to play with the other children and watch him at noon so that he wouldn't have a chance for the other children to cause him to run or to wrestle. She was a very good to help us. She was just exceptional. Her name was Ella Hafen. She was a daughter of Charles Hafen in Santa Clara, and was a real teacher. She was [very] good.

FH:Some of those teachers were wonderful.

VW:Yes, they were. He never had any trouble with that since. As far as I know, he has never been bothered.

FH:[Did] you use alcohol and alum packs?

VW:Yes, alcohol and alum packs. We bandaged it on him so it wouldn't come off if 01:20:00he turned over or got up. And we kept him quiet. He healed up perfectly.

FH:How old was he when this happened?

VW:[He was] six years old. He married Maxine Tenney. Before he married her, he went with Vasco to the airplane factory in San Diego [California] and worked [at] the Consolidated Aircraft [Corporation].

FH:Is that where he met her?

VW:Yes, he met her down there and they have lived there ever since. They have seven children: five boys and two girls. None of them are married. His two oldest boys have been on [LDS] missions. The oldest one went on a work mission and the other one went to Scotland. When he went to Scotland, the older one came 01:21:00back from his work mission and went into the [United States] Army. When they examined him for the Army, after he took his basic training, they put a pin on him that said building engineer. He said, "How come?" The officer said, "That is what you are capable of [doing]." They sent him to Germany to build barracks and do carpenter work. He learned that [from] being on a work mission. His work mission was mainly here in Utah.

The next one was a girl and we called her Fay [Winsor]. She [had] whooping cough 01:22:00when she was three days old. She was three days old [when] she was exposed. By the time she was ten days old, she was whooping like a good one. So were all the rest of the children; my children and Neils's children all had whooping cough. We had a great time. We come pretty near to losing her. Mother Winsor said, "It is better to give her up than to have something wrong with her. There are lots of things worse than death." I decided if she couldn't get better and would have something wrong, I would rather give her up. I did give her up and she never whooped again.

FH:That was all it took; just the willingness.

VW:I guess. She was extremely sick and she didn't grow very fast her first two 01:23:00years. When she was two years old, she began to grow wide and continued to grow wide. [Laughter] She was [very] fat. She walked [very] young, even after being so sick. She got along alright in school, as far as I know. She was in the school band and she played the bell lyre by ear. She plays accordion by ear too, when she tries. She married Luther Calvin Jackson against our will. He didn't belong to the church. When her baby was born, they had to take it caesarean, 01:24:00this huge baby. The baby died. She [had] another one and it was taken caesarean. She has never converted her husband. She thought she could, but she hasn't. I don't know whether she will yet or not. There is a time for all things, I guess.

The next one was a boy: Ivyn Luther [Winsor]. He was born with his right leg up in his groin. It wasn't fastened there, it was just twisted that way. The cord was tight around him so that when he was born, his navel was ruptured a little. 01:25:00[The] doctor showed me how to fix his navel with tape and it [was] alright. His leg and foot was twisted so that if he walked that way, he would walk on his ankle. When he was three-days-old, I could see he wasn't going to put his legs out straight. I put them tied together. I rubbed them with olive oil, put his legs tied together and bound them around with a diaper. I kept him that way until he quit putting his leg up into his groin. I got his foot straight; binding it that way, his foot went straight. He never knew he was born a cripple.

FH:Who told you to do that? Did you just do it on your own?

VW:I just did it on my own.

FH:It was a good thing you had sense enough to know what to do.

VW:We couldn't go to the doctor. There was no doctor in Moapa Valley. He was the first one [to be] born in Moapa Valley. We didn't have a doctor then. Dr. Harrison was there, but he was a cripple. When he [Ivyn Luther] came back from the [United States] Army, they all went to the Army, I said, "Did they find anything wrong with your legs [or] your feet in the Army?" He said, "No. Oh, yes. My right leg is an inch bigger around than my left leg." I said, "That was your crippled foot." He said, "Crippled, hell! I wasn't crippled." [Laughter] I said, "I rubbed that leg an ankle with olive oil so you would get strong. [So] 01:27:00your ankle would be strong and wouldn't turn over." He said, "That is what made my feet so big." It is my fault his feet are big. I didn't tell you about Ivyn's marriage. He married Norma Irene Hidden. He has three children.

FH:Where do they live now?

VW:[They live] In Las Vegas [and] he is a barber. Then came the twins and they were identical. They looked so much alike, it was hard to tell them apart.

FH:Could you really tell them [apart]?

VW:Yes. We could tell them in the night. One had a little bump on his ear. We 01:28:00would feel for that and would know which one he was. [Laughter] They [each] weighed nine and one-half pounds. They were big twins.

FH:I guess they were!

VW:I didn't have any more trouble raising them than I did any of the rest of [the children]. I didn't have a bit of trouble with them. I nursed both of them until they were four months old. They grew right along. Then I tried to feed them and they spit it out. [Laughter] They weren't going to eat when it wasn't what they wanted. I always had milk in there for somebody else's baby, besides mine. They grew up fine and dandy; fought all the way through.

FH:They fought?

VW:Yes, they did fight. [Laughter]

FH:What were their names?

VW:Leon and Kleon [Winsor]. Kleon was born first and then Leon was born feet-first. Kleon was head-first. He had rested on the front bone so that there was a dent in his forehead across here. The lady [who] was with me there said, "Sister Winsor", they showed me the second one first, "I don't like to show you this one." I said, "Is there something wrong with him?" She said, "Yes, he has a ditch in his forehead." I said, 'That will be alright in three days." She said, "Three days?" She came up every day to wash the babies and see if [it] was filling out. In three days, you couldn't tell them apart. That ditch was gone.

FH:How did you know that?

VW:I don't know. [Laughter] Aunt Effie's baby that she adopted was a twin. He had a ditch on the side of his head. She said in four months [it] was all filled out. But I told her it would be filled out in three days, and it was. We didn't let him cry enough, I guess. Sometimes, we don't let our babies cry enough. He came pretty close to choking to death on his own saliva when he was three days old; the first twin. Mother Winsor was with me and she called Walter. He came from clear out in the field. She hadn't got him to [stop] choking, but Walter brought him to when he got there. We let them cry after that. We turned them on their face and let them cry so they could get the mucus out of their mouths.

FH:[This] developed strength in their lungs.

VW:[Inaudible] in their lungs, yes. When they were about two years old, I had made a camp quilt and tied it with ties. Have [you] seen denim camp quilts tied with ties?

FH:Yes.

VW:They were big enough [that] they were learning to use the scissors. They were quiet too long for me. I hadn't heard a thing from them for quite a little while. I went to see where they were and what they were doing. They each had a pair of blunt-pointed scissors for children and they had cut nearly every knot out of that quilt. They were having a big time cutting those knots and pulling them out. [Laughter]

FH:[Laughter]

VW:They were back-stitched, too, and they had pulled them out. That was what you get with twins. They were alright in school. They seemed to get along fine and 01:32:00the teachers liked them. They were always full of fun. They had lots of fun growing up. When the teacher [Grant Bowler] gave them their graduation certificates out of the eighth grade, he said he knew both boys apart easy. He could tell them easy and he gave the wrong diploma to the right boy!

FH:[Laughter]

VW:He didn't know them as easy as he thought he did! They and Ivyn were basketball players when they were going to school. They enjoyed their basketball. The teacher told them to fight; they had to learn to fight for that ball. I was sick and they would fight in the home. We would tell them to stop 01:33:00fighting. They would say, "We have to. [Grant] Bowler said we had to fight. We had to learn to fight." I told them, "The only thing I wish is Bowler would have a pair of twin boys and be sick. [That] they would fight right in the room where he was, or anyplace else where he could hear them. Just fight, continually." Bowler did have a pair of twins, but they were a boy and a girl. I don't think they fought, although they should have done. [Laughter] They grew up had a real good time all their lives.

Kleon married Lois Truman Chadburn. She was a twin, too. She didn't see why they had given her the name of Truman. Her grandmother was Lois Truman, so they gave her the full name. She thought that was a heck of a name for a girl. [Laughter] 01:34:00After they had three children, they separated. They were married in the temple, too. A few years later he married a Japanese girl. She is just a wonderful girl. She sure is nice. The other one [Lois] was nice in a way, in some things, but she got on the wrong note, I guess. Her name is Misako Yamashita. She is just a lovely girl. You couldn't ask for a better daughter-in-law than she is.

FH:Is she LDS?

VW:Yes, he baptized her.

FH:[Were] they married in the temple too?

VW:Not yet. She was married before and had a divorce. She had a daughter. They were talking of going to the temple and she asked me what about it. I said, "Don't you think your daughter should have a say-so in it?" I do think the girl should have a say-so. If she went to the temple with Kleon, her daughter would 01:35:00have to be sealed to Kleon. Her daughter has joined the church and she has been to the temple.

FH:It will all work out then.

VW:I think so. I think they will be.

FH:Where do they live now?

VW:[They live] In Overton [Nevada].

FH:What is his work?

VW:Kleon works at the sand [and sand] mine in Moapa Valley. She, "Saki," we call her. Her name is Misako, but we call her "Saki" because that is what she was called in school, is the secretary of the school down there and has been for several years. She is [very] well liked down there. Everybody likes her.

Leon was the second one born. They were [born] fifteen minutes apart. He married [Ada] Adell Bundy and they had two children. He and one of the Rice boys bought an airplane together. His last ride in the airplane [was] with a Mexican chum that he was chumming with. I argued with him about that airplane. I said, "You are not well-enough acquainted with air to do that." He said, "I can land that airplane anywhere." I said, "It is too dangerous." He said, "I could land it on the Red Mountain over there." He was coming in from his flight. They had their flight and enjoyed their ride. He was coming to the landing in Overton and a 01:37:00down-draft took them just like that. Kleon said they were just slapped [like swatting a fly] out of the air.

There was nothing they could do, I guess. It killed both of them. Adell married 01:38:00[Karl Doerr] about three years later and she hasn't any more children. He [second husband] thinks the world of her children. He has done everything for them [and] been a wonderful father to them. I think he is a wonderful man; he doesn't belong to the church, but I think he is a wonderful --

[END OF TAPE TWO -- SIDE ONE]

VW:-- man because he has been so kind to those youngsters. The next one was Elvis [Neils Winsor], a boy. That made seven boys for me. He was born breech and I suffered a great deal with him. The doctor said there might be something wrong with his back because of the condition that he was born in. The doctor was 01:40:00[very] concerned about it, because I suffered a great deal all night. The doctor just lived across the street from us and he went home. He was so nervous he couldn't go to sleep. His wife was a nurse and she came [over]. It was after sunrise. He went home about 5:00. Elvis was born March 21, 1928. After daylight she came over and opened the bedroom door and peeked in. I smiled at her. She said, "Are you alright?" I told her, "Yes, I have had a little sleep." She said, "I will go right back and tell the doctor." She went back and told him and then 01:41:00he went to bed and went to sleep. He didn't expect me to live through it, but I got along fine. The doctor said maybe there would be something wrong with his back, maybe he wouldn't walk. I rubbed his back with olive oil every morning and every night until he was big enough to walk. When he was five months old, he was walking in the walker and he tipped the churn over and spilt the cream all over the floor. We had an up-and-down churn. He was alright. He is still alright; a great, big, husky [fellow] now. He married Mildred Krasawski, a Polish girl. He thought he could cure her of alcoholism, but he didn't [and] he couldn't. They finally separated. She had one child and the child was like Vasco said, "The 01:42:00child was born drunk, poor [boy]." [Laughter] [His blood tested one-quarter alcohol at birth.] The child is a lot better; he is seventeen years old now. He [Elvis] later married Lola Dotson and had four children by her.

The next one is Zenetta [Winsor]. She lives here in town and is the one [who] has a new baby now. After having such a hard time with Elvis, I decided I wasn't going to have such a hard time [with childbirth] again. I read all I could find out about it and lived on cooked carrots. I don't like carrots. I had to make myself eat them. If I couldn't eat my carrots I went without my meal. I ate 01:43:00carrots for breakfast and dinner [with] a handful of raisins for supper and a drink of milk. I kept myself so thin I could tell when she was upside down or right side up. I could feel her. Every time I did the washing, I had to wash on the rub-a-dub scrub board, she would turn the wrong way up every time. I would turn her back before I went to sleep that night. I had such an easy time with her. I wouldn't have believed anyone could have had such an easy time, if I hadn't gone through it myself. Nobody would believe me if I told them. I was thin, [very] thin, to be able to feel where her head was. She weighed ten pounds. [Laughter]

FH:No matter what you ate?

VW:No, it didn't make a bit of difference. I could get milk on just plain water, and have big babies too. She started school in Logandale and then we [moved] to Central for a year and she went to school up there. Elvis went to school on the [school] bus to St. George from there. We moved down here and she went to school in Santa Clara. The teacher in Santa Clara said she was the brightest student he ever taught. I said, "That is putting it pretty broad." He didn't say so much about Carrol. Carrol was the next one. I said, "Carrol is just as bright in her way as Zenetta is in hers. They were just different girls." Zenetta had curly 01:45:00hair and I did it in ringlets because I like curly hair. She was quite attractive and that helps. That does help quite a bit when they go to school. She married Andrew Dee Hunt, her second cousin, once-removed. He is [a] third cousin to his children. [Laughter] He is a [very] nice boy. They were married in the temple, too. I didn't tell you [about] the rest of them. Vasco and Victor were married in the temple. He has been a [very] good provider for her and done [very] well. I think he is a marvelous son-in-law. They just had their tenth child.

The next one is Carrol [Winsor]. She came a week before Christmas on December 01:46:0018, 1933. Zenetta was born in 1931. She was more mischievous than Zenetta was. Zenetta had to take care of her a good deal. When the two of them were home and [the others had] gone to school, Zenetta would have to take care of Carrol and [she] was always into mischief. Zenetta came in one day when I was doing genealogy. I was doing Icelandic genealogy then. She came with the tears rolling down her cheeks. She said, "Mama, I wish we had never had any ancestors." [Laughter] That was how she felt about genealogy. I said, "What is the matter?" She said, "I just can't make Carrol mind. She just gets into mischief whether I say anything or not." That was why she didn't want any ancestors. I decided I am 01:47:00neglecting my little girls and I quit making her tend the baby so much. They were a little over two years apart. Now she is doing genealogy every chance she gets. She thinks more of her ancestors than she thought she did.

Carrol wasn't as bright in school, evidently, according to the teacher, as Zenetta was, but when it came to doing other things, she was ahead of her. She cut up all the scraps she could find to make doll clothes. Zenetta didn't get into mischief like that. Carrol would take all the bias tape for trimming and cut it up into little pieces to put on her doll clothes. You can see why Zenetta didn't want any ancestors. [Laughter] She got along alright; she got along fine. 01:48:00She could draw pretty well too. One of her drawings went into the yearbook. I think there were two of them; anyway, one of them went into the yearbook. She married Donald Alva Best. He belonged to the church at the time. He was an elder at the time, but they weren't married in the temple. His folks didn't belong to the church. They had come to St. George on their way to California, ran out of money and decided they would have to work here [if work was to be found. It was.] It didn't matter; they never did go on. Now, his mother is baptized and his sister is baptized. I guess they will never go on to California. Carrol had 01:49:00six children; one of them had heart trouble and died. She adopted one since her last boy was born. She had three girls and three boys. [When] her last boy was about five years old she adopted a child [who] was left here. They have her adopted now [and] she is theirs. They think she is just alright.

FH:[Did] you adopt one?

VW:Yes, [we adopted] Dianna [Winsor]. When we got her, nothing agreed with her. She couldn't eat any prepared foods or Similac or anything. She was just nearly 01:50:00dying. Her mother said, "If you can save her life, you can have her." I said, "Do you mean that?" She said, "Yes. If you can save her life, you can have her." I thought that was quite a statement to make. We had her about a week, and found out that our cow's milk wouldn't agree with her. I said one morning to my husband, "We are going to get a goat." He said, "Where are you going to get it and how are you going to get it? Have you got money to pay for a goat?" I said, "I have $20.00 to go towards it." We got in the car, took the baby and went to St. George. We went down around, not down the highway, but a block below the highway on Tabernacle Street. As we turned the corner there were a couple of 01:51:00goats tied on the ditch bank. I said, "Here are our goats, right here. We will get one of these or both of them." He said, "Well, $20.00 won't buy both of them." I said, "We will pay the rest some other time." We went until we found the place where the goats belonged. They were getting ready to move to Cedar City [Iron County, Utah]. I said, "Would you sell your goats?" "We would be glad to. We have been trying to get rid of them. We didn't know what to do about it." I said, "We need one for our baby." She said, "You can have both of them for $20.00." So we got two goats for $20.00.

I watered [the goat's milk] a little because it seemed to be quite rich. In St. George there used to be an old Dr. [Silas] Higgins years ago [who] was set apart 01:52:00as a doctor. I guess that was all he knew -- he got his doctoring from the Lord. He asked for information from the Lord when he wanted to know something about doctoring. He said to take the top part of the milk and put half water [in it]. That was for cow's milk. I decided goat's milk is recommended for children and babies, so I just watered the goat milk a little, about a fourth water. I knew that wouldn't make her fat, but it might settle her stomach. She never had another bit of trouble. She never threw up her food again. Gradually I got her to taking the whole goat milk. She walked when she was seven-and-a-half months old. They asked, "What was the matter with her, that she walked so young? How 01:53:00come?" I said, "She was raised on goat milk and she thinks she is a goat. She has to jump around and she can't keep still that long." [Laughter] When we went down to Logandale at Christmas time, I put her down on the floor. I just stood her down when my sister-in-law called me into the kitchen. She said, "Victora, did you know you let loose of that baby? You left that baby standing alone?" I said, "Yes, she can either stand alone, or walk, or she can sit down if she wants to." She was only eight months old.

FH:Have all of your children have been a real credit to you?

VW:I think they are alright.

FH:You should.

VW:Dianna is the one [who] was here. She married Don Lynn Morewood and she has 01:54:00two children. [When] she had the first one, it wouldn't be born. She had something wrong that the baby couldn't come and so she had a caesarean. The next one they said would be alright. The first baby died. They said she would be able to have the next one, but she wasn't. They examined her and she has a crooked pelvic bone [so] she can't have children. She has had all of them by caesarean. She has been to the temple and has had them sealed to her. She had the first one sealed to her, too. We asked Dr. [Wilford J.] Reichmann if she should have that first one [sealed], because it was dead. They worked with it a half hour. [The] 01:55:00heart was still beating when they operated, but it didn't breathe. They thought it did, but they weren't sure. They asked Dr. Reichmann if she should have that baby sealed to her. He said, "By all means have her sealed." She insisted that she be named, so Walter, my husband, named [and] blessed her. She has the three children now.

FH:During the years [after] you went to Moapa Valley [were you] active in church work right up until now?

VW:Yes.

FH:Tell a little bit about some of your activities.

VW:I told you about some in Enterprise. We moved down to Logandale on Victor's 01:56:00third birthday. That was October 19, 1921. That was [when] Fay was born and had whooping cough. The children were still whooping when we got down there in the fall. We had heard that if you change climates, the children [would] get over the whooping cough in time. Whooping cough usually lasts six weeks --

FH:Yes.

VW:-- but ours was continually lasting. I had to take care of the baby because she was so bad and that made Victor have it worse. He was still whooping when we moved down in October and so was she. Neils's children didn't have it so bad.

FH:What happened to your --.

VW:When I [moved] down there wasn't a ward in Logandale; it was a branch of the Overton Ward. It was organized into a branch of the Overton Ward after we went down there. [Elmer Bowman was the presiding elder. My brother Neils was one of his counselors. Walter was the superintendent of the Sunday school. I was president of the Primary. That was my first [position] down there, president of the Primary. I was teaching Sunday school. Later, we moved into Kaolin [Nevada] for awhile and I was president of the Primary down there. When our ward in 01:58:00Logandale was made into an independent ward, Elder Bowman was made bishop and my husband was superintendent of the Sunday school. The ward went right on just like the branch did. Later, I was a secretary of the Relief Society. I have been secretary of the Mutual [Improvement Association], the Primary, the Sunday school and the Relief Society. I have been all but ward clerk. My husband was ward clerk. [Laughter]

FH:You've had your share of that kind of work.

VW:Anything more?

FH:How long [has it been] since you lost your husband?

VW:[He died] two years [ago] in September [1966].

FH:What happened?

VW:He died September 22, [1966]. He had a stroke. His death certificate said double cerebral hemorrhage. He never swallowed after the stroke nor never spoke a word.

FH:He was taken quite quickly.

VW:He lived five and a half days.

FH:[Has] that made it pretty lonesome for you?

VW:Yes, quite lonesome.

FH:But you are blessed to have some of your children close around.

VW:Yes. I have three daughters; two of them here and Carrol [lives] in St. George. Daughters are good for mothers.

FH:Yes, that is right.

VW:I went to Carrol's for the Christmas holidays and stayed there for two weeks 02:00:00this last Christmas.

FH:Are you doing quite a lot of genealogy research?

VW:[I am] trying to.

FH:Tell a little bit about what you have done in that line.

VW:I haven't done very much. I have that black suitcase full of work that has all been done on the Icelandic line. They are returned records. I have been wondering if they would accept them over there in the library. Some of them have brought their genealogy there that they didn't want. This is finished. This is what is returned from the Index Bureau.

FH:[Do] they already have copies of this?

VW:They have it up in Salt Lake [City], but they don't have it here in this library. If somebody came here and wanted to search anything in the Icelandic line --

FH:This might be helpful.

VW:-- it would be helpful to show them what was done.

FH:Have you gone clear back to the origin of the Icelanders?

VW:Yes, when Iceland was settled. I have not done a whole lot because my father sent for the records. He was the one [who] got the records for me. He paid $25,00 a book for four books. My brother [Neils] found a record in Canada that he got a copy of and sent to me. My husband went down to San Diego and found a man down there by the name of Gunnison. They called him Barnson and later when he [was] better acquainted, he said, "My name isn't really Barnson; it is Gunnison and we are Icelandic." "Pop" said, "Do you have any records?" He said, 02:02:00"Yes, we have a pretty good-size record. We don't do anything with it. We are just keeping it for [a] keepsake." Walter said, "Will you loan it? Let us take it to Logandale and get a copy of it? We will send your record back to you after we get a copy." He said, "Yes," he would be glad to let us take it. It had a lot of our genealogy in his record. Our line ran right into his line.

FH:Wonderful!

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF]

FH:Do you feel you've learned some good lessons from life?

VW:Yes, I believe so. We have been [very] poor all of our lives, but since our children have grown up and launched out for themselves, I have decided that was a real blessing. We couldn't afford to buy all the playthings they wanted, so they made their own. That is what is the matter with Vasco. He had to make his 02:03:00own, [laughter] and all the rest of them.

FH:With all this wonderful experience of your life, you are well-qualified to give counsel to your descendants.

VW:Do you think so?

FH:I think so. I think maybe it would be well for you to give them counsel about [their] lives and maybe bear your testimony.

VW:One testimony that I had, one experience, was when our oldest boy was in the CCC [Civilian Conservation Corps] camp. He came home for the weekend and he was to be back there by a certain time on Sunday afternoon. He got a ride with a friend, a Marshall, not a marshal by trade, but a Marshall by name, Burt Marshall, I think it was. They were gone and we supposed they were alright. It 02:04:00was a hot day, so I lay down outside on a cot that we had in the shade and dropped off to sleep. A voice said, "LaVar needs to be in Las Vegas, and they are broke down up in the Narrows [in Nevada]. They can't go unless you go take him." I rose right up and said, "Huh?" I looked to see who it was. There wasn't anybody there. My husband was out in the lot and I said, "The folks who were taking LaVar up to [Las] Vegas, to the CCC Camp, are broke down up in the Narrows. We need to take the car and take him over. He will surely miss his bus that he is going [on]." He said, "How do you know?" I said, "A voice told me; 02:05:00that is all I know." He said, "We will just go up to the Narrows and find out how much you know." We went up to the Narrows and there they were, broke down. Mr. Marshall said, "I will never get him there today. If nobody comes along, he will just miss his gang." We took him in the car; it was a Model-T I believe, and we took him to [Las] Vegas. We just barely got there as they were loading up the trucks for the boys.

FH:That was a remarkable experience.

VW:[It] was a real voice that told me.

FH:Of course it was. There isn't any question about that.

VW:There was another time when my first girl was [young]. Moapa Valley is great for desert sores. Do you know what desert sores are?

FH:No, I don't.

VW:They call it impetigo over here [at] the hospital. We always called it desert sores; I called it dirt sores. That is because you get a sore and you get dirt in it, then it gets infection and just makes a sore. It just keeps growing and growing. She was going barefooted and both big toes got desert sores. They just stayed sore. It was [very] hard to do anything with them; they just didn't cure [heal] up. I went to Enterprise with her and Ivyn for the Twenty-Fourth of July. She was walking [inaudible]. She was about two and a half years old. While we were in Enterprise, they kept banging the screen door on her little toes. They 02:07:00were so terribly sore and just kept her crying all the time. I had quite a time with her. Finally, I decided I would just pray about it. I got salve from the doctor in Logandale, [but] that didn't do any good. I prayed about it before I went to bed one night and asked the Lord to show me what I should do with that child. The next morning, just at daylight, a voice told me to use boric acid water on that little girl's toes. I got right up, built a fire. It [the voice] was so plain that I went clear around the corner to see who it was. I thought maybe some neighbor and there was nobody there. I built a fire, got hot water. You fix boric acid water with boiling water. I fixed the boric acid water, put it on her toes [and] bound her toes up. I had them done up for a long time, 02:08:00anyway. In three days those toes were well.

Still, the doctors here now say that we don't need boric acid. I don't see why. We used to use boric acid on our baby's navels, always, when they were first born. I used boric acid for everything as far as sores were concerned. I didn't feed it to them.

FH:It's good for a lot of things.

VW:I didn't feed it to them, but I know that boric acid is good for sores. You can't tell me that it isn't.

FH:[Do] you firmly believe the gospel is true?

VW:Absolutely.

FH:What do you consider good advice to your children concerning this?

VW:I have asked them to keep the commandments of the Lord, to live the Golden Rule and keep The Word of Wisdom. Anything the Lord suggests should be gospel to 02:09:00them and to everyone else. I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. I know that his counsel is worth obeying and any counsel that comes from the Lord is worth obeying. I know that our prophets have the right to receive counsel, to receive revelation for the benefit of the church and for the benefit of the individuals of the church, if need be. I have advised my children to heed the counsel of our authorities and gain a testimony for themselves by their own cultivation of the gospel. The gospel is like anything else; you must cultivate it in order to grow. You have to cultivate your crops to grow; you have to take care of your children to grow. It is the same with the Spirit of the Lord; you have to cultivate the Spirit of the Lord, ask for it and pray for it. Obey the 02:10:00counsel that He gives you.

FH:Very good.

[END OF TAPE TWO -- SIDE TWO]