Interview with Myrtle (Crawford) Winder

Myrtle (Crawford) Winder was interviewed on December 21, 1968 in Springdale, Washington County, Utah by Fielding H. Harris, a representative of the Voices of Remembrance Foundation. She related her personal history of living in various parts of Utah. Her husband, Daniel "Dan" Winder, also participated.

FH:We are at the Fly-In LD Ranch, the old Winder Ranch, [which is] about fifteen miles east of Springdale, up through Zion Canyon and on the east end of Zion [National] Park. Would you [give] your full name please?

MW:Myrtle (Crawford) Winder.

FH:What is your birth date?

MW:February 21, 1908.

FH:Where were you born?

MW:I was born in Springdale.

FH:What was your father's name?

MW:James Crawford.

FH:[What was] your mother's [full] name?

MW:Pauline (Ruesch) [Crawford].

FH:What can you remember from your early childhood?

MW:First thing I can remember is when my grandmother died. She died on January 10, 1910. I remember my mother holding me up over her coffin. She said, "This is grandma." That is all I can remember.

FH:Were [you] just two years old?

MW:I was about two. But that is all I can remember [of] that time.

FH:That is remarkable. [Are] there other things that you can remember from your childhood?

MW:I remember that Grandfather [John Jacob] Ruesch used to own the store. He had 00:02:00the first store in Springdale. He was also the first chorister. My Grandfather [William Robinson] Crawford, we always called him grandfather, was the first bishop in Springdale.

FH:[The] first bishop in Springdale? Can you [tell about] your school activities?

MW:I remember before I even went to school [and] after grandma [died] my little sister Della was just a baby. Mom used to ride a horse from Oak Creek [Washington County, Utah] down to Springdale to clerk in the store and help grandpa. One morning it was cold. Mama always rode side-saddle [as] she was 00:03:00quite a horseback rider. As we went down [the trail], the saddle turned and mama turned and the horse started to run. The horse ran up the hillside, up on the bank, and we fell off. I took Della down to Aunt Fannie [Gifford's] place and stayed there with her while mama went back [to] get the horse. She had to go clear back to the corral to get her. When we [went] down to Springdale, I would watch Della while [mother] would work in the store and help grandpa.

FH:She wasn't hurt then when ─

MW:No, she wasn't hurt. I don't know how it happened.

FH:That was fortunate.

MW:Yes, it was.

FH:[Did] you [attend] school in Springdale?

MW:Yes, I had a cousin [Merle Crawford] my same age. The first year I guess we [arrived] home alright but the next year there were two boy cousins. [Cousins her age were Norman Crawford, Heber Crawford and Ruben Ruesch from Springdale and Edwin Stout from Hurricane. Added by J. L. Crawford during editing.] The four of us [would] find hills to climb and roll down and slide. We would be let out [of school] about 2:30 p. m. and [the other youngsters were] let out at 4:00 p. m. We would be home most of the time because we had places to go.

FH:In other words, you just liked to play along the way?

MW:We did too! [Laughter]

FH:[Laughter] [Do you remember your] teachers in school? How far in school did you go?

MW:I only [went] through the eighth grade. I had some special teachers. The 00:05:00first teacher we called Miss Florence. Her name was Florence Gifford at the time. She married John B. [J. B.] Fairbanks [a famous artist]. She taught us for three years. I had Miss Stout and Mrs. Skoguard. Mr. Chester Graff and Linda Fletcher were my two last teachers.

I remember the last year we were in school there was a boy there by the name of Cecil Hepworth. He would take the powder out of shotgun bullets and then cut the 00:06:00bullets up and make all the girl's [rings]. We called them engagement rings. He would put the power down [on] the floor and strike a match to it; right [on] the schoolhouse floor. I don't know how he got by with it but the teacher let him do it. Maybe she couldn't handle him. One day he went up the trail and [took] some powder [from] where they were making it. He filled his pocket and then stooped over and struck a match to some [powder]. [It] burned and flashed up into the powder in his pockets and he died from [those] burns.

FH:My gracious! That was a sad lesson to learn.

MW:It surely was. He was a good student. I don't think he ever stopped to study, 00:07:00but he always knew his lessons.

FH:Did you ever take any trips when you were small?

MW:Yes, I went to Lund [Iron County, Utah] with my father and my younger brother [Reuben to pick up] freight.

FH:Was Lund the terminal [at the] end of the railroad?

MW:Yes. That was where they [picked up] the freight. We were so thrilled because we [were] lost. I don't know whether papa [was really] lost but he said he [was]. He said he didn't know which way to go and we had to guide him when we were in Cedar City and we thought that was pretty good.

FH:[Laughter] [Maybe] he was trying to make you feel important.

MW:I think that was the reason he said he didn't know [which way] to go.

FH:Were you active in The Church [of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints while] you were growing up?

MW:Yes. As soon as I [left] Primary, I was put in as a teacher. I taught there. I was a Beehive girl [and was] an assistant teacher in the Beehives. When we were in the Beehives my sister, [who] was older, was the "bee-keeper." We went to St. George [on] an excursion to do baptism work. We had to take a wagon [and] 00:09:00two of the young boys went with us to take care of the horses.

FH:Do you remember how many went?

MW:There was quite a group. We had a wagon load.

FH:Did you do this more than once or was that just one special trip?

MW:[We went] just once. [It] was one special occasion that I'll never forget.

FH:Can you tell about your father?

MW:My father was a very quiet man. He was a wonderful man. He was very good to us. I can't remember him ever getting after me except in love and kindness. I 00:10:00can't ever remember him ─

FH:Was [he ever] cross?

MW:He was never cross [with] me. He was a [very] patient man.

FH:What did he do to make a living?

MW:His father and brothers owned Oak Creek property across the [Virgin] River, all up through there. They farmed. After Grandfather Ruesch died, my mother and Uncle Walter [Ruesch] [from] the store bought him out. Mama and papa did [that]. They moved the store across the street over on the old Allred place, or where 00:11:00the Allreds finally [located]. [They] built a kitchen in the back and that was where we lived at that time.

FH:What do you remember especially about your mother?

MW:I remember that she could ride horses. She could handle horses. I've been told that when she was girl, she would take a big basket of eggs and go to Rockville with them on her horse, side-saddle, and sell them.

FH:If she had a spill with a basket of eggs it would have been a mess! [Laughter]

MW:Surely would! She died when I was eight so I [don't] remember too much.

FH:Oh?

MW:She died when my baby brother [Paul] was born. When my baby sister [Della] was born, she went to St. George. She was so sick that the doctor advised her not to have another baby but she wanted one. When he was nine days old, she died.

FH:How many children did your parents have?

MW:They had eight. One boy died just before I was born.

FH:[Would] you tell a little bit about your family? What happened to them?

MW:My brothers and sisters?

FH:Yes.

MW:My oldest brother, [John W.] "Jay" [Crawford], [lives] in Ogden [Weber County, Utah]. He has a family [and] they are all married.

FH:He is still living?

MW:He and his wife [Madge (Jones) Crawford] are still living. My sister Frances [Crawford] married my husband's uncle [Ira Hepworth], and they live in Hailey, Idaho. Their two daughters are married and have families. Their son went on a [LDS] mission [to] South America. I don't believe he is married yet.

DW:Yes, he is.

MW:Oh, I didn't know he was [married].

DW:Didn't you read the last letter?

MW:No, I didn't understand it that way.

DW:Maybe I am wrong.

MW: My sister Nora [Crawford] lives in Carson City [Nevada with] her husband [Donel J. Jolley]. Their family is all grown, married, and have children. Then I 00:14:00came next and I'll tell you [about me] later.

FH:Alright.

MW:My brother Reuben [Crawford] lives in Las Vegas [Nevada with his wife Zella (Nickerson) Crawford]. He has a son and two daughters and they are all married.

My sister Della [Crawford] lives in California [with her husband] Elmer Higley. [Her] family is [all] married also. My brother Paul [Crawford] lives in Springdale. Right now he is in the process of a divorce. He doesn't have any children.

FH:That is all of them that lived?

MW:Yes, those are the ones that lived.

FH:Were there any occasions in your family where faith was exhibited? How did your family live? Were they strong in faith?

MW:Yes, they were. I remember we used to have a branch of Primary when I was 00:15:00just a little girl. I don't know what my mama did in Primary but I think she was acting president up in Oak Creek. Papa was always strong in the faith also. All [of] his brothers and sisters could play instruments and sing. He used to play the coronet, mandolin, harmonica, of course, [and the] Jews harp. We used to walk from Oak Creek down to Springdale. Some days we would go down in the morning to Sunday school and back home. Then [we would go] back to [the] meeting 00:16:00in the afternoon when they used to hold Mutual [Improvement Association] on Sunday nights. After I [was] in Mutual, I never missed a Mutual [meeting]. While I was growing up [and] before my younger brother was old enough [to go with me], some of the time I walked down by myself to Mutual [meetings].

FH:[Was] your family all active and strong in the faith?

MW:Yes. My oldest brother ["Jay"] was in the bishopric at one time there.

FH:What did you do when you were growing up just for fun? Did you ever have any fun?

MW: Yes. There [was a period of] about two years [when] we never missed having a party [on] Friday night. Usually it was up [at] Aunt [Eliza] Lizy Crawford's [home]. I know that [people] said we wore her linoleum completely out [from] having parties up [at] her place one winter.

DW:She never complained!

MW:She didn't complain; she just enjoyed having us.

FH:Did she have children that were in the group?

MW: Yes, she had children too. She knew how it was.

FH:Did you do other [activities]?

MW:Grandfather [William Robinson] Crawford had a great big barn. That was the best place that you could ever pick to play Run-Sheep-Run or Hide and Seek. It had some great big swings in it and we enjoyed that.

FH:[Did you have any] candy pulls?

MW: Yes, we had candy pulls. At these parties we would have candy pulls or [we 00:18:00would] just go outside and play.

FH:Did you enter into [any] sports activities? [Were there many sports] in school? What did [your participation] amount to?

MW:I could play with any of the girls and [some] of the boys in basketball or baseball. There were four of us.

FH:What about marbles? Did you ever play marbles?

MW:[Laughter] This cousin of mine, two other boys and I, we used to play marbles.

DW:[Inaudible] [Laughter]

MW:Sometimes the girls would be against the boys and sometimes we would do it the other way, one of the girls and a boy [as a team]. We really tried to see 00:19:00which one could get there first to start that marble game!

FH:Were you pretty good?

MW:Well, I thought I was! [Laughter]

FH:[Do] you enjoy music?

MW: Yes, I enjoy music but I can't play [an instrument].

FH:The important part [is] that you enjoy it. What about reading? Do you like to read?

MW: I sure do! I like good books! I like to read mostly church books. I like history and geography [very] well.

FH:Did you read novels [while] you were growing up?

MW:Yes, I did! I enjoy a good story yet!

FH:Do you think they had [any] effect on your life?

MW:Yes, I think so.

FH:Was schooling kind of limited in your day? [Did] you have to [educate] 00:20:00yourself through [books] that you read?

MW:Yes, I did. My father wasn't able to send me [to school and the] nearest school that I could [attend was in] Hurricane [Washington County, Utah].

DW:That was before the bus came.

FH:[Would] you tell about your courtship and marriage?

MW:[Laughter] What do you want to know about it?

FH:How did you happen to meet [the] fellow that you married?

MW:In the first place, Uncle Lewis used to drive our school wagon down to Springdale part of the time. After they got the wagon started, he drove it. The 00:21:00Winders had moved in. That was when I met my future husband [Daniel Winder].

FH:Were you impressed right away?

MW:I don't suppose I knew that he was the one right that minute. I wasn't very old at [the] time.

FH:When did you [have] your first date with him? Do you remember that?

MW:Yes, I do. I was going with another fellow. [Daniel] told me he was going for a horseback ride the next day. I don't know if it was the night before or the next morning when my husband came up and asked me if I would go. I said, "Reuben was going to ride the horse, we only had the one horse." He [said he] would get [another animal] for him to ride if I would go. He [found] a little donkey for 00:22:00Reuben to ride and we went on our first date. [Laughter] We went up to Mill Creek and old "Pat," the horse that I was riding, sunk in the mud and both my feet were on the ground. We had quite a time. [Laughter]

FH:[Were] you scared?

MW:Oh, a little bit! [Laughter] There was [another] trip [when] we went out to Shunesburg [Washington County, Utah]. I rode old "Pat" again. It was a nice cold Easter day. Old "Pat" decided he didn't want to go on [and] he lay down in the [Virgin] River. [Shunesburg is a ghost town in Perunuweap Canyon in Zion 00:23:00National Park, Washington County, Utah. Added by J. L. Crawford during editing.]

FH:My word! You didn't have very good luck with horses, did you?

MW:The river didn't happen to be deep. I got off quick enough that I didn't get wet and we went on. [We went] up to the cliff dwellings and the girls that were with us, two other couples [and] another young couple and the other man's brother and his wife. Mildred and I decided to write our names [on] the cliff dwellings. It wasn't [but] just a few days [later] that we [received a] letter from the [United States] Park Service informing us to go erase our names. So we 00:24:00[had] two trips out of that!

FH:[Laughter] [How did] they know who to send the letters to?

MW:Our names were there! [Laughter] "Dan" and Ira were innocent but Myrtle and Mildred weren't.

FH:How long did you go together before you ─

MW:We went together [for] three years.

FH:What happened [next]?

MW:We just [were] married. [Laughter]

FH:You mean without him asking you?

MW: [Laughter] I don't know [if] he ever asked me or not, or if I just told him yes.

DW:It just happened!

MW: [Laughter] We just had a common understanding, I think. It just happened that way.

FH:You knew one another and understood one another.

MW:Yes, I think we pretty well knew each other by then.

FH:Where were you married?

MW:We were married in the St. George Temple. My father and "Dan's" mother were going down with us [because] we were not of age [and] we had [to have someone] sign for [us]. "Dan's" father had an experience when he went to get married. He got there and they had to go clear back to Mt. Carmel ─

DW:Springdale.

MW:Was it Springdale? ─ to get her father's consent to get married. They had to go on horses in those days. I guess he thought he would have to sign for us so he wasn't around when we left that morning. We went down to his folks place 00:26:00in St. George. Grandma [Mary] Winder and I were to sleep in the house on the bed and "Dan" and my dad were to sleep on a mattress out on the ground. "Dan" and I went to the show that night. The next morning we [were] married and went home. His dad had a room already for us. He cleaned it up and made it all ready. My sister had made us two quilts in the two days we were gone.

HF:She was fast!

MW:She had others come in and help her make the two quilts.

FH:That was very nice.

MW:"Dan's" dad [John A.Winder] always said that there was something wrong with anyone if they couldn't get along with me. I think if anyone had to take him [when he was older] it would [have] been us and not any of the others. I never had problems with him [and] we got along fine. I always loved both him and "Dan's" mother very much.

FH:This was because your attitude was right.

MW:I hope it was.

FH:That speaks well for you. Where [did] you [go] to live? [What] about your children [that] followed?

MW: [At] the first place we started to put up a tent. Then [we] stayed in Lyle 00:28:00Winder's ["Dan's" older brother] house. They had two rooms; that was a big house. We [stayed in] one of [the rooms]. They only had two children [so] one room was enough for them. [Laughter] We stayed there. We had [a] Model-T buggy we went [to] St. George in at Christmastime. Another brother's wife was having a baby. They wanted to go to Rockville where Sister [Rebecca "Becky"] Dennett was a midwife. "Dan" cranked that Model-T buggy until he raised a blister in the 00:29:00middle of his hand and it broke. It was such a cold night. The baby, a little girl, was born on December 24, 1924.

FH:Was he able to get that buggy started?

MW:Yes, by cranking it, he finally [started] it.

FH:He finally made it.

MW:[Inaudible]

FH:How long did you wait until you had a child? Where was your first child born?

MW:Leonard [Dan Winder] was born in July 1925 in St. George. We went down there to a nurse's home and he was born [there].

FH:[Did] a midwife or a doctor [attend you]?

DW:Dr. McGregor

MW:A doctor, Dr. McGregor.

FH:What do you want to tell about Leonard?

MW:Leonard was always a good boy to us. He was a good help to us and he still is. Like all my children, he is very special to me. He married Florence Annie Dutton and they have three children. L. D. is married to Joyce Hafen.

Florence Annie [Winder] married Wayne Greenoff and they have two children. [Inaudible] told me today that he passed his examination for the [United States] Army but he is going to try to get into electronics in the [United States] Navy. He will have to go in by March [1969].

Grace [Winder] was born in this little place. She wasn't a week old when she pushed herself off of the chair and fell on her head.

[TAPE RECORDER TURNED OFF]

MW:It didn't hurt her in any way. She was only a tiny baby when Leonard [came 00:32:00down with] scarlet fever. "Dan" had to live somewhere else. He couldn't stay with us and [go to] work. At that time he was working for $2.00 a day for the Utah Parks [Company]. He came home one day and said he was going to [the] Grand Canyon [in Arizona] to help build the lodge. So Grace, Leonard and I went along with him. Grace was [only] six weeks old when we went out there that summer.

Leonard fell at deer season time and cut his cheek and it wouldn't heal so we brought him home. That was all [he] needed. When he got home it healed right up. "Dan" got a piece of steel in his chin so he had to come [home]. It snowed and he couldn't get back. So we didn't get back out there. We didn't get to spend all [of] the winter out there as others did.

FH:You had him home then?

MW: Yes, he had to do something else. I can't remember what he did.

DW:[Inaudible]

MW:Not when Grace was that old.

DW:[Inaudible]

FH:[Did] he help build the tunnel?

MW:["Dan"] helped build the tunnel [in Zion National Park] but that was in 1927.

DW:We started [building it] in 1927.

HF:But he did work on the tunnel? This was quite a ─

MW:He helped build the tunnel and it was [very] dangerous work. When we were first married, he and Weston Justet went down on ropes over the ledges to build a trail so that the surveyors could come down and survey it. They were down 00:34:00there two weeks. They had to build a trail before they could get back out.

FH:My word!

MW:Then Dolores [Winder] was born and I was sick. I was in bed for two months. Dr. [Clark] McIntyre was our doctor. He was [working] at the Nevada [Contracting Company from Fallon, Nevada] camp. He was our doctor. He said his wife asked him why he didn't come down and see how I was. She asked him if he wanted to live down there all the time because he was there so much. [Laughter]

DW:[Inaudible]

FH:[Laughter] He kept ─

[END OF SIDE ONE]

FH:─ pretty close track of you?

MW:He was a good doctor. He was [very] good.

FH:It was fortunate [that] you were near by when you needed him.

MW:It sure was. Here is a faith-promoting story I can tell you [about]. When I 00:35:00was so

bad they didn't think I would live until morning. I can't remember if they got Uncle "Dan" or not, he was the bishop. But I can't remember whether he was with Alvin Allred, the counselor, or not. Alvin Allred gave me a blessing [and] administered to me. He promised me that I would get over [the illness]. I have never had sugar diabetes [again]; not since I had that blessing.

FH:Wonderful!

MW:That was a blessing to us. Grandma [Mary] Winder stayed there with us for a long time because I was so sick. They had to have someone take care of the baby 00:36:00[also]. Then Doyle [Winder] was born in this house without gable ends. [It] didn't have windows, doors or gable ends in it. While I was laying there in bed, it rained and the wind blew the rain all through the house. It was quite a lot of fun. [Laughter]

FH:You had a real experience there. [Laughter]

MW:We sure did! Pioneers! [Laughter] I can't remember how old Doyle was when 00:37:00Dolores was burned. [She was] burned so bad, it was just terribly, terribly bad. But right through her pain she said she was glad it wasn't little Doyle. We held her on our knees for so long, three weeks. The [pain] came the first hour and then it [became every] two hours. If we didn't get that poultice on her, she would start screaming [and] as soon as we would [put] it on she would [hush] up. [She was] just burned so bad!

FH:About how old was she?

MW:I can't really remember, she must [have] been about four or five [years old].

FH:That is such a hard thing [for] a little child to handle.

MW:Yes, it is. I was washing [clothes]. We used to heat our water in a tub outside. I was washing and I told them that they could roast their potatoes in [the fire]. But she was so tiny and I didn't know she would come to [the] fire. She put [the] coals out and [they] caught the back of her dress and burned it and her so bad.

FH:[Did] she get over [it]?

MW:Yes, she got over it. I don't think she has any problems at all with [the burns] any more.

FH:What about Doyle? What happened to him?

MW:I remember one time when he was three or four years old he didn't ever have 00:39:00his nose free of a sore. He would always bump it and skin his nose. One day a fellow came along with a Shetland pony to have their pictures [taken]. I thought oh, good, Doyle [doesn't] have a skinned nose today. By the time I got them down [off] the hill, he had a skinned nose to show in the picture! [Laughter] He fit right into our family. They are all so extra special. Dolores was almost four 00:40:00[years old] when Doyle was born. I remember when I was waiting for Doyle to come, we had a bunch of little puppies! "Dan" went down to Rockville one night with a bunch of people and said he would be back. That was on Tuesday night. On Thursday morning he came back and had my sister, Della, from California to stay with me for a while. [Laughter]

FH:He brought some help for you?

MW:Yes, he brought some help for me but it was a long time in coming. [Laughter]

DW:[Inaudible]

MW:He called me on the phone Wednesday morning from California. He didn't enjoy the trip, by the way. [Laughter] [It] was just a bunch of [fellows] that wanted 00:41:00to go somewhere and they wanted him to drive because they knew he could drive there. I was mighty glad to [have] my sister up there with me.

[Myrtle Dora Winder was born March 22, 1935 when Delores was six years old. Somehow she was left out. We called her Dora. Added by J. L. Crawford during editing.]

DW:[Inaudible] and they knew I wouldn't.

MW:But I was mighty glad to [have] my sister there with me. While I was sick,she [became] sick too. The doctor wouldn't let anybody come [to see] me. They were kind of particular with me, I guess, at that time. [Dolores] was five years old in March [and] Paul [had been] born in February. We used to have to go to Santa Clara [Washington County, Utah] to get our license plates. It was the day before 00:42:00my birthday [when] we went to get our license plates [that] year. "Dan" said he was going to get me a birthday present. I told him he didn't need to, because the baby would be my birthday present. But he [bought] me a dress. We [went] on up to the ranch. Billy Rowe was staying with us at the time.

DW:[Inaudible]

MW:Billy. The next morning I was going to make a cake. "Dan" killed a chicken so we [could] have some chicken and cake for my birthday. We had the chicken all cleaned and hanging out. I washed and was going to make the cake. Pretty soon, I told him we better prepare to go as soon as the [children] came back from 00:43:00school. Billy would go over to Morrisons and bring them over. I [had] driven [them] to school, but after New Years we decided to let the [children] go with Johnny Morrison. As soon as Billy [came] back with the [children], we went to the hospital [in] Kanab. The doctor [checked] me over a bit and proceeded to go over to Orderville to a meeting, he called it. They called him back and it [only took] seventeen minutes [to] get from Orderville to Kanab.

FH:Seventeen minutes! [Laughter]

MW:He came in just as the baby was born. He said, "I didn't think you would have the baby until morning." I said, "I couldn't wait until morning and have him on my birthday."

FH:[Laughter] You had made up your mind.

MW:I made up my mind to get my birthday present and I got him! I didn't drive [the children] to school in Orderville anymore that spring. "Dan" would hitch the horses up to a three-corner [inaudible] and pull [it] down the road to shovel the snow off. I would drive down and then he would be back at night to meet me when I came home. We let Johnny take the [children] the rest of that year. I drove the next fall. Paul watched for everything along the road. The 00:45:00children would have to hold him while I drove. He would watch the cows [and] horses or anything that was along the road when he was tiny.

Harlon [Winder] was born [at] the time "Dan" [was] sick. We went into Orderville for that special event. I think we were living there when he was born. We went to Springdale to go to conference at my dad's place. I can't remember if Leonard went to Priesthood meeting. I believe that Leonard, "Dan" and my father went to the Priesthood meeting Saturday night in Hurricane. Sunday morning, Aunt Ellen, 00:46:00my stepmother, was going to stay there with me. I told her, no, to go on, [that] I would be okay. They left and it seemed like they would never come home. I made some chili beans so they would have something to eat when they [returned]. We stopped off at Grandma Winder's place and visited a while. Finally [we arrived in] Orderville. I don't know how I made it. [It was] a midwife, wasn't it? Doctor Aiken [had] gone to school so we had to get a lady [Sister Spencer] to come down. Harlon was born before morning on January 12.

When Dannell [Winder] was born, Dolores had company until twelve [midnight]. They sat out on the porch. Then she went to bed. She had been in bed about half an hour when I called her to go over and call Aunt [Geneva] "Jennie" [Johnson], as we called her all the time. We were [back] in Springdale then. She went over and Geneva told her to go down and call the doctor. She went down and called the doctor. [There was only one telephone in town ─ at the Allreds.] We had a coal and wood stove and had to heat water. That was what I was doing; making a fire, while Dolores was calling the doctor. It was just a half hour after I called 00:48:00Dolores, [that] Dannell was born.

FH:The doctor didn't even get there?

MW:No, he didn't get there in time. I had Dolores and Geneva there when she was born. "Dan" was at the ranch working for Charles Esplin. He wasn't there either. That is why Dolores kind of claimed Dannell as her own. When she was little she took her over. [She was] a little blonde girl. The doctor came and got things all settled and everybody [left], but I was in bed. The horses and cows broke out of the corral and came down through the garden.

FH:[Laughter] Everything happens at once!

MW:That finished the night! The next morning I [had] my father go up after "Dan". He brought his mother and Mary [Winder] down to sit with me that day. After [Dolores] married, she wanted to know if she could adopt Dannell. I said, "No, one of these days you'll have a little blonde girl." Sure enough, she [had] LaRue. Now she has Susan [and] she's a little blonde, too. When Tom [Winder] 00:50:00decided to come, he didn't wait for the doctor to get things ready either.

FH:Judging from his size, it was a good thing the doctor was there!

MW:He wasn't that big though. He was just a tiny one.

FH:Oh, wasn't he?

MW:He came premature and [wasn't] too well at first. But he came out of it [and] I think he is a lot better now. I have a wonderful family. I think the Lord must

[have] loved me because if He hadn't, He wouldn't have given me such a wonderful family; the [family] I was born [in] and the [family] that was born to me and their father.

FH:During these years that you were raising a family, were active in the church? Can you tell a little bit about your activities during those years?

MW:I was a Primary teacher and a Visiting Relief Society teacher all through those years. I remember we used to walk from the other side of Springdale, pushing a baby buggy with one or two babies [to] teach Primary. Later, [I was] a 00:52:00Sunday school teacher [for several] different classes. I had the cradle-roll for a while and then I had an older group.

FH:Were you active in Relief Society?

MW:Yes, I have been a secretary besides visiting teacher. I was one of the class leaders at one time [and] the secretary and a counselor for a while. I was the president for a while. In MIA [Mutual Improvement Association] I taught the class when I was younger. [When] I [was] older, I was asked if I would be a 00:53:00counselor. I was activities counselor that time and then I was a teen-age counselor later.

FH:That means you were a counselor during the years when the program was very strict about having the girls all active and having records on them?

MW: I would like to tell you something about that. When this girls program was first organized, I don't know if everybody had it or not. A neighbor of mine, Melba Hoyt, was asked to be the chairman in our ward. She [had] Della Hardy and myself as her counselors. [The] first year, my group of girls [received] their 00:54:00individual awards and their [group] award. Of course, I didn't do it all, Della and Melba helped. I was secretary in the girls program. Then I was president in the Mutual [Improvement Association]. During all that time, I had understanding help at home and was able to do my work. Now I'm a Primary teacher [for] a group 00:55:00of little four year olds.

FH:You have been active right on through all the years.

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MW:When Dannell was born, Doyle stepped on a nail and hurt his foot, and "Dan" was sick. Then, when Tommy was born, "Dan" was sick again and a rattlesnake bit Doyle. Doyle said if I didn't quit having [children that] I would kill him and his dad off. [Laughter]

FH:[Laughter] He figured [that] every time you had another baby it caused problems?

MW: Yes, between those two. "Dan" was the elder's president. He was secretary in the elders. He was in the bishopric twice, as a counselor, besides being the bishop and in the high priests group.

DW:[Inaudible]

FH:Was he president of the quorum?

MW:Yes, I think he was president of the quorum but I think he was a counselor too. All through our lives, we have been blessed. Having him active has helped 00:57:00to bring the children [up] like we should.

FH:[Do] you think this [has] had any effect on the family?

MW:Yes, it [has]. It really [has]. The counselor he was telling about a while ago, it had an effect on his family too, while he was in there. He stayed until he moved away. They had to get two counselors when those two left. [Inaudible] I want to tell my family how much I love them. I love them very much. I would like them to do things like they have always been taught to do. Do the right [things] 00:58:00and bring their families to do those things to honor our Father in heaven and ask His guidance. I know that this is the right church and that the gospel is true. Joseph Smith was a true prophet, the same as the other prophets since, [like] President [David O.] McKay now.

I appreciate the ones my family married. I think that they have the right person and they are the same as my family. They couldn't be without their mate and I love their children. I love them very dearly and my great-grandchildren along 00:59:00with my others. I ask the Lord to bless them at all times. I ask the Lord to bless us all that we will do the right [things]. I think that this will be sufficient.

[END OF TAPE -- SIDE TWO]