Interview with George William Paul

George William Paul was interviewed on November 9, 1968 in Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah by Fielding H. Harris, a representative of Voices of Remembrance Foundation. He related his personal history of living in various parts of Utah and California.

FH:Would you please give your [full] name?

GP:My name is George William Paul.

FH:[What is] your birth date?

GP:[I was born] June 10, 1904.

FH:[Where were] you born?

GP:[I was born in] Salt Lake [City, Salt Lake County, Utah].

FH:What was your father's name?

GP:[His name was] Joshua Hughes Paul.i

FH:[What was] your mother's [full] name?

GP:[Her name was] Annie [Maria] (Pettegrew) [Paul].

FH:[Can] you recall some of the [events] in the early part of your life?

GP:My earliest recollection concerns two or three events that occurred when we 00:01:00lived on Canyon Road in Salt Lake [City]. My father wanted to be near town. This was where I was born. [The] City Creek stream was not covered in those days like it is now. In the runoff season it was a real stream. There was a bridge [so] you [could] cross [the] stream. I used to delight in getting out on that bridge when the water was high. I recall how my mother and sister worried and [were] 00:02:00too frightened to come after me. I enjoyed myself out on the bridge right over the water, [but] they couldn't [reach] me.

FH:[Did] they just have to let you go?

GP:Someone built a tower way up on what is now Capitol Hill. We had chickens in the backyard that would fly up [the] hill to this tower like pheasants. I have never seen this since. My brother, "Les," [Leslie Joshua Paul] used to tend these chickens. He would turn them out and they would fly right up to the tower; clear up the hill. That is the earliest [event] I can remember.

FH:Do you remember anything from your preschool days?

GP:No, I don't.

FH:Let's talk about your [education]. Tell how much [education] you had and a little bit about it.

GP:We moved from the home on Canyon Road to a new, fine home up on University Hill just out from the University [of Utah, Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah] campus. I went to grade school at the William Stewart School which was on the University campus. I went through the ninth grade and was student body president in the ninth grade. That was a delightful experience. I went from there to the LDS [Latter-day Saint] University. That was what they called it then, but [it] was really high school. My father had formerly been president of 00:04:00that school. Being an LDS boy and coming from an LDS family, that was where I wanted to go [to school]. I graduated from high school there. I remember the services [were held] in the [Salt Lake] Tabernacle during [the] administration of Heber J. Grant. I went from there to the University of Utah and spent two years there.

FH:Was there [any] reason you didn't get more [education]?

GP:I felt that I wanted to go into business. I had always been a person [who] wanted to be out on his own and I felt that I would like to get started. I went 00:05:00to California to try my fortunes in the electrical manufacturing business and [came] back to Salt Lake [City] to continue it.

FH:Did you have [anything] happen in your early life that was an adventure?

GP:Yes. I think adventures of a kind were in the [Boy Scouts of America] program. We had an excellent scout troop. I have often wondered and marveled at the leadership of our scout troop. It was top-notch. As a result, we had many 00:06:00fine trips to the parks throughout the west. Our troop owned a truck. It was an Olds truck, they changed that to Oldsmobile later, but [at that time] it was O-L-D-S. We traveled throughout the western country.

I remember one trip we took to Cedar Breaks [National Monument, Iron County, Utah]. There was a rain storm about ten miles away. It didn't rain where we were, but the water went through the drainage system and it came crashing through. We escaped with our lives just by being warned a moment in time to get 00:07:00upon the pinnacles when the water went by us.

FH:That can be treacherous in that country.

GP:Yes, that was an exciting day.

FH:[Did] you take [other] trips that you would like to [mention]?

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GP:There was another adventuresome trip. The Boy Scout Council in this valley was led by Oscar A. Kirkham. He was a boy's man. He was [a very] fine executive. They organized what they called caravans where automobile dealers would furnish 00:08:00automobiles and the boys would drive them. Licensing wasn't [required] then. In those days, we didn't have to have one. I was a large boy so I drove one of the cars that had been wrecked in Idaho Falls [Idaho]. It was not too good of a car. We picked up a truck in Idaho Falls [that] we finished the trip with. This truck didn't run very good either. We were given our food for the day and had breakfast in camp. Then we would have to make our next objective town our stop [for] that night. We were on our own during the day. We were getting ready to cross the Continental Divide this day and this truck wasn't running very well. The boys and I [who] were in the truck decided we would take off early to be 00:09:00sure to get over it. Early that morning we started to climb up the Continental Divide. During the morning, the ranger up there telephoned down and said, "Don't let those boys come because we are having a terrific storm up here." But we had already [left]. There was a lot of excitement in camp about where we were and how we would [get along] through this big storm.

We got in it alright; it was a real storm. This truck we had was a Model-T [Ford] pickup. It didn't have any top on it and no windshield. In this storm, the other fellows rolled out a tarp and tied the corners to each headlight and over the top of me. They cut a hole in the tarp for my head to stick through and 00:10:00then tied the other corners to the back of the truck. They then got in underneath. This worked good going up, but when we started down there weren't enough brakes on the truck to hold the truck. We stopped and chopped down a little sapling and pushed this through the bed of the truck and down under the axle. When I would call out to them [that] I wanted to stop; they would [lift] up on this sapling tree and drag that under the axle of the truck and bring us to a stop. That was quite an experience coming down off of the Continental Divide in this great rain storm with me and my head sticking out of this tarp! It was on a dugway and it was a [very] dangerous adventure. We made it and got down to the other side. I think Victor [Idaho] was the name of the town.

The rangers missed us and didn't see us in the storm. For two days they scoured that mountain looking for us. [They looked] over the cliffs and over the edge of the dugway and here we were waiting for them down at the bottom of the

Continental Divide. We made it safely, but they were the ones doing the worrying, especially Oscar Kirkham. He was beside himself.

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FH:Can you tell some things that you remember about your father?

GP:I was the last child of the family. [I was] born late in my parent's lives. 00:12:00They were sixty-five years of age when I was twenty [years old]. I didn't know them very well. However, I had quite an interesting report from someone else. His name was Mark Austin who was presiding in England over the [LDS] mission when my father was [there]. My father had been president of three colleges in Utah. He was president of the Brigham Young College in Logan [Cache County, Utah], the Utah Agriculture College of Logan and the LDS University, later a high school, in Salt Lake [City]. He received his education and his Ph.D. in English Literature and Logic at Wesleyan University in Illinois. They did a lot 00:13:00of debating in those days.

When he was on his mission, he was in the Birmingham District in England; a Mr. Ward was commissioned by the Archbishop of Canterbury, head of The Church of England. He was given permission and authority by The Church of England to drive the Mormons out of England. This he undertook to do. They were having an awful time in the London area. James E. Talmage was the mission president, if I remember right. Mark Austin was presiding over this district. Mr.Ward had singled [them] out as his target to begin his offensive to drive the Mormon Church [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints] out of England. He was 00:14:00doing very well and Mark Austin was [very] worried. Brother Talmage wasn't too concerned. He was a quiet and highly educated man and knew the work of the Lord would succeed. Nevertheless, this became a real issue during this area. I feel if it had not been for the debate that followed later, the course of events would have been entirely different than they turned out.

Mark Austin knew my father and his ability in debating and Mr. Ward wanted to engage the Mormons in a debate. He wanted to defeat them in this debate and discredit them. That would be his take-off point for his campaign to rid England of these Mormon missionaries who were causing quite a stir. He was very active in the London district, so Mark Austin asked Brother Talmage to transfer my 00:15:00father from Birmingham to the London area so he could engage this man in a debate. Brother Talmage declined at first, but Mark was so persistent that finally he did. It turned out to be a very fine thing because my father was an accomplished debater, intellectual and a highly trained man in this area. Of course, Mr. Ward didn't know this. They [met at] the finest hall and it was widely publicized all over southern England, especially in the London area. They had a big crowd. The elders had never been able to get a hall. They never had a 00:16:00place they could speak and proclaim the gospel. Here was a facility that was given to this activity. This was what I didn't know and I hadn't heard a thing about it. My father had never mentioned it. He was very quiet about it, but Mark

Austin was entirely different. He was enthusiastic and when he met [me] one day he told me he would have to tell me this story. How he had engaged this Mr. Ward in debate.

There was a series of three debates. The first night of the debate, each side stated his premise; what he was going to talk about. The next night they got down to business. This night really did shine for the cause of Mormonism in England. After the heckling had ceased, my father called [for] the rules of 00:17:00international debate which everyone was well acquainted with and he wasn't disturbed or rattled with the heckling and jeering [that was] going on. He called and suspended the rules. [He] talked to them for a full half hour reciting to them from the Magna Charta to the present moment the rights of people of free speech and the opportunity to state their case. It was a masterful thing and there was no more heckling after this talk. The debate started again and this night finished the debates. The next day it appeared in 00:18:00the newspaper a withdrawal of Mr. Ward saying he had no intention or desire to continue this further. He said he didn't know who this man was or if it was the return of Paul of old, but certainly it was Paul, a master of the situation this night. That ended his crusade to drive the Mormons out of England.

It elated Mark Austin. He was a tall, gangly man [and] could hardly contain himself. He said that the joy of seeing this man put away so neatly, so nicely 00:19:00and proclaiming the truths of the gospel at the same time, was one of the most masterful events he had ever witnessed. He wanted me to know [about] it.

When I brought it up to him [my father] later, he was quite old and very feeble at [the] time. He said, "Yes, I remember. That was a very fine event. I felt fine, relaxed and knew that I had the truth. I just went at him like a tiger. We won handily." It was a very interesting and wonderful thing. He died shortly after that and I was with him when he died. He left his home and I took him to Holy Cross Hospital [Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah] where "Les" wanted to treat him for [his] lung ailment. My father had hay fever and asthma and it 00:20:00had developed into pneumonia. He died shortly after we had entered him into the hospital.

[Joshua Hughes Paul died March 6, 1939 in Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah.]

FH:Your father was a remarkable man.

GP:Yes. In his obituary notice and at the talk at his funeral service, one of the fine educators of the state paid him a high tribute. He said, "There had been fine intellects developed in Utah, but there has never been any finer one than [Joshua Hughes Paul] my father." This was true. He was a very highly educated gentleman and I am very pleased.

FH:Would you like to tell about your mother?

GP:I have the highest regard for my mother. She was a kindly lady, very gentle, sweet and noble. All of my life I have felt so highly of my mother. She was truly a Latter-day Saint.

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GP:I remember my mother was president of the Primary Association in our community both [for] the ward and stake. She loved children and was constantly 00:22:00engaged with the Primary movement of the church. My father, referring to him again, wrote extensively for the newspapers and was an editorial writer [for] The [Salt Lake] Telegram and The [Deseret] News. He ran for the United States Congress on one occasion and was elected for three days until a close vote was challenged by his opponent. It turned out he had lost by a very few votes on the 00:23:00recount, which was quite disappointing.

FH:How many children did they have?

GP:They had six children.

FH:Tell about them.

GP:I had two sisters, Stella [Maude Paul] and Lucille [Annie Paul] and two brothers, Leslie [Joshua Paul] and James [Pettegrew Paul]. A third brother died at six months. His name was Jean Hamilton [Paul]. Following his death, I was born to this family. I am the youngest child in the family.

My two brothers received medical degrees. My sister Stella was a fine musician. She and her husband [William Clive Bradford] were nationally known in musical circles. My sister, Lucille, died shortly after her marriage [to Lawrence Woodruff Hardy]. She lived in Idaho and came to Salt Lake [City] with some [medical] trouble. I think it was albumin, I am not sure. She died [February 28, 1917] rather early in life. My other sister [Stella] has since passed away 00:24:00[April 1, 1925] and now there are just the three boys remaining: Leslie, James and myself.

FH:Can you tell some of the [events] that happened in your life that you may [feel] were faith-promoting?

GP:Faith-promoting? My goodness, let's see. I don't know where to begin. This has been a wonderful and amazing thing to me. The blessings of the Lord and His 00:25:00goodness manifested in events and His apparent love for His covenant people. This has always been near and dear to my heart; the gospel of the Lord. I turned to the Lord in my early twenties with such an impact as to affect my thinking profoundly concerning the gospel and its reality, the power of the Priesthood 00:26:00and the interest God manifests with His people.

I recall my first interesting [event] in this area would be at the time we started to build the Salt Lake airport. This was when the big airplanes began to show up and it was the first major runways that Salt Lake City had. I was transferred from the state [Utah] Road Commission along with a number of other men to supervise the building of the large runways. I didn't have very much to do for a month [so] I concluded I would read The Book of Mormon while waiting for the contractor to get ready. We were there on the job before he was ready. 00:27:00These other fellows were rather worldly and not interested at all in the affairs of the church, it's doctrines or the standard works of the church.

I announced one morning, coming into the group where we would assemble, "You know what I am going to do, fellows?" They said, "No, we have no idea. What is it?" I said, "I am going to read The Book of Mormon." Of course, I was ridiculed, laughed at and made fun of. I just let them have their fun and took 00:28:00the book with me in my car out on the Salt Flats, west of what is now the airport, and started to read. I wasn't doing very well. I found myself counting the number of times the phrase, "and it came to pass" occurred on each page. I have the count that I made of that somewhere. I had to get a hold of myself. I knew I always had a deep and profound respect for the doctrines of the church, standard works and its leadership. There has never been a time [when] I doubted the divinity of the origin of the church. This troubled me in my experience with this. My mother had given me a combination book as a Christmas present and encouraged me to read, but I had only done it in parts. This was my first serious effort to read The Book of Mormon.

I knew I was at fault and it wasn't the book, but me. I turned to the Lord and I remember getting out of the car and taking the book with me. After selecting a rather large greasewood bush there on the Salt Flats, I knelt in prayer holding this book [in front] of me and asked the Lord to help me read this book in the manner that would be for my own good. [That] I would be able to put all other 00:30:00idle thoughts out of mind and center my attention on the meaning and message of the gospel as contained in this book. Well, He did in a most marvelous way. I began to read and almost immediately I was consumed with interest in what I was reading and couldn't quit until I had finished the whole volume. I lived with the people [who] were described and told [about]. I went to war with the young folks and none were killed. It was a surprising and astonishing experience. I was living with these people and I heard the gospel and sensed its meaning. I 00:31:00[was] just thrilled at the words I was reading. Before long, I came to the promise of the early prophet as he declared that anybody [who] reads this book with a sincere intent to know its meaning and purpose can have this knowledge and understanding. This came to me far ahead of the time when I saw it. I knew the scripture contained and the documents contained in it were a true and a burning testimony [that] just filled my being. I was happy beyond my ability to express.

After finishing the book, I got out of the car again and went out beside this bush and thanked the Lord again aloud in fervent prayer and [with] a grateful 00:32:00heart for the blessings of that day. Since that day, The Book of Mormon has been one of the principal sources of literature [for] me. This was my first attempt at reading scriptures. Since that time, scriptures have been unfolded to me in a brilliant and understanding way -- thanks to the help of the Holy Spirit.

FH:That is wonderful. Are there some other [events that] you can tell that have happened since your marriage? Maybe we will reserve those for a bit.

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FH:Let's [go] back to your life when you were younger. Tell some of the things you did that were fun when you were growing up.

GP:Yes, there were a number of them. This experience I just related concerning The Book of Mormon was after some of these fun events. That was the beginning of my time when I became serious concerning the light of truth and the gospel truths. Previous to that, when I was in school there were many fun events. I remember [one] U-Day [at the University of Utah] and that [was] quite an event.

[END OF TAPE ONE -- SIDE ONE]

GP:The purpose was to whitewash the 'U'. Each year there was a coat of lime applied to [the] big block 'U' that was up on the mountain. The night before and during the day was a holiday at the school and it was a real event. We were freshmen this year. This was all new to us; we didn't know what it was. We were 00:35:00against the sophomore class; we were rivals.

Our job was to take the 'U' and the sophomores were defending it. We got together and there were between 100 and 150 freshmen [who] planned this [event]. We [had] a large, long, half-inch rope about 200 to 300 feet long and our strategy was to get up above these fellows above the 'U'. We were going to stretch the rope down and come off the hill and sweep them right off of the 'U'. The fellows [who] came behind us would hold the 'U' until morning at which time 00:36:00the seniors would come up there and see who was sitting on the 'U' and they would be declared the winners. We took them down off of there. That contest went [on] all night and started about 10 or 11 o'clock and lasted until 6 o'clock the next morning. The feelings ran rather high at times and I was one of the ringleaders. There were several of the sophomores [who] thought I had gone a little too far with some of my activities. We had taken their shoes after we captured them and tied all of the laces together and took the whole bundle over to the lime pit.

All of these fellows were without shoes and that was how we were able to hold the 'U'. They were about crippled without their shoes and couldn't come back. 00:37:00[Laughter] Because they lost their shoes, it took them half of the morning to find them in the lime pit. They finally found them and there were a lot of mis-matches, though. When we got down to the campus, they singled me out to get even. It was me and several others [who] were the ringleaders of this plot or campaign. During that morning they got the tub out again; this was the tub they used to dunk the freshmen. It was a rather large tub, four or five feet in diameter and maybe two or three feet deep. It was filled with water and had a 00:38:00big leather edge around the top so no one would get hurt. They started dunking everybody that they could catch. Four or five fellows would pick on one and capture him and take him away, throw him in the tub and hold him under, for good measure, two or three times. They started [with] me along with others. We weren't able to defend ourselves properly because they were organized and we weren't. They were winning the morning at this 'U-Day' event. I was pressed to know what to do. I didn't know how I was going to keep these hundreds [of] fellows off me. Someone suggested we bring the fire hose out and turn it on them 00:39:00and that would disperse them.

We went to the [basement of the] Park Building to get the fire hose out on the lawn to disperse the rather large group of sophomores, but before we could get it through the doors, somebody turned the water on. I had a hold of the nozzle. [Laughter]. If you ever had a hold of a fire hose you know you have a tiger by the tail; you can't let go. Finally, with some help, we got it out of the doors and on the lawn and then it began to take effect. We had the sophomores scattering and regained our position in the scheme of things. [John Andreas] Widtsoe was the president of the university, heard this commotion from his office upstairs and came down to see what was going on. He couldn't come down and through the hall because there so much water on the floor inside the Park Building. He began to get mad and that was understandable. He went up the front 00:40:00way and around the corner and when he came charging at me, I thought he was one of the sophomores and I directed the water on him. I had learned how to knock these fellows down. If you hit them on their knees and get them to turn around you [have] them. It just knocks them right out and you [can] take them like leaves with the stream of water. This is what happened to President Widtsoe. He was really mad! [Laughter] I had a hold of the nozzle and during the day I was in his office to give accounting for what was going on. I explained how it all happened. He took a rather dim view of the whole [event]. He suspended me from school for awhile. I think it was the influence of my father that had me 00:41:00reinstated within the next day or two. This was a big day and a lot of fun.

They have since stopped this type of activity. I think it is good thing, because this

is now a somewhat embarrassing [recollection] for me. I surely would not have done it if I had known who it was that was coming [at me]. It was a lot of fun at the time and caused a great stir throughout the community.

FH:How many times did you get dunked in [the] tub?

GP:Too many times! They had me singled out. I was a marked man from then on. Anytime something happened, I was in on it, whether I was or not, they thought so and put me in the tub. We [decided] that tub would have to go. I had a Model-T [Ford] Coupe and it had a flat deck on the back. The tub was kept out [in] front of the Park Building when it wasn't full of water. It was in the basement one day in front of the Utonian office. We decided to get the tub and 00:43:00take it away. We had had enough of it. "Vic" [Victor] Topper and another fellow went into the Park Building and brought it out the side door, put it on my car and away we went, down around Cummings Field and south on Thirteenth East with [a] half-dozen cars in hot pursuit to retrieve this tub. I saw they were gaining [on us]. So [at] about Sixth or Seventh South [Street] on Thirteenth East [Street] I turned into somebody's driveway. Luckily, the garage doors were open and we drove right into the garage and shut the doors. The cars that were chasing us didn't know where we were. They went on down the street.

We took the tub and put it up in the rafters of this man's garage and then opened the doors and backed out. We started back towards school and were discovered and the chase was on again. This time they ran me into the curb at about Second South and Thirteenth East [Streets]. "Vic" and the other [fellow] jumped out and ran down the hill with everybody chasing them [with] the hair clippers in their hands. When they caught them, they cut off all of their hair. They missed me. They left me sitting in the car because they were so intent on 00:44:00[catching] these other fellows. I never did get my hair cut. [Laughter] "Vic" looked terrible for several months. This ended the tub [use] and it was lost for almost a year. [Laughter] The man in the garage never knew it was there.

FH:Did you ever go to dances? Did you have any dates with girls?

GP:Not too many dates. They could all be counted on the fingers of one hand. There were just a couple of girls [who] were interesting. One of them was [Margarete] "Margaret" [Davis] who I have always had a high regard, admiration 00:45:00and love for. I guess we have been sweethearts from [our] late childhood -- all our lives. We were always at dances. We met at [an] Eleventh Ward dance. They were very interesting [events]. They don't have dances now, or it doesn't seem so, like we enjoy as young folks then. We went together from then until we were married.

FH:Tell about your courtship.

GP:We had an interesting and romantic courtship. It is a pleasure to look back 00:46:00on it. I recall the night I proposed to "Margaret". It was at a Phi Kappa dress-up party up at Pinecrest [Lodge in Killyon's Canyon]. It used to be a lovely place up in Emigration Canyon. It was a lovely evening that night and the fellows were so handsome, the girls were so beautiful, the music was wonderful and the setting was so romantic up in the tops of the pines. I proposed to her and, to my astonishment, she accepted. This was a very exciting and romantic 00:47:00evening, one that I shall always remember and cherish. We were young and full of life and the occasion was so beautiful. We have thought about this lately, and compared our romance, courtship and proposal with others; we were a [very] romantic couple. It was a delightful and engaging [event].

[George William Paul and Margarete "Margaret" (Davis) were married August 27, 1924 in Provo, Utah County, Utah.]

I continued in school for most of one year after we were married that summer. 00:48:00Feeling the urge to get started in business, I left school that year and I have been on my own ever since in one endeavor or another. I started electrical manufacturing and received some training in California and then came back to Salt Lake [City] to make transformers, electrical parts and metal stampings for the radio industry. It was quite extensive here at that time. I furnished thousands and thousands of transformers, condensers and metal stampings [to] Baldwin [Radio Company], Utah Radio [Products Company] and many others that were here

I was doing very well until The Great Depression of 1929 and the early 1930s 00:49:00swept me away along with many others. At that time, I changed my occupation to [being a] fuel salesman for [the] Utah Oil [Company] and [later] contracting which I have done [ever] since.

FH:[Did] you have some children come along during this time?

GP:Our oldest boy, George [Paul] was born in Salt Lake [City]. I have the highest regard and greatest love and affection for my family. They are remarkable children. They all have a great heritage of Priesthood background. Mother's [my wife] Priesthood background [experiences] is more extensive than my 00:50:00own. I think of my own heritage and I am grateful for that. Our children are, I feel, very blessed in the tremendous heritage of Priesthood and gospel background that they have.

Howard [Paul] was born while I was in California. Mother [my wife] was here and he was born in Salt Lake [City]. Shortly after his [birth], they all came to California and we [lived] there for awhile. Sensing the need for raising our family in a community that had a better spiritual background than we knew in 00:51:00California, I wanted my children and family reared and raised among LDS people. We were not able to have that in California like they do now. At the time, the church wasn't as strong there as it is now. We returned and have remained here since.

We were here in Salt Lake [City] about a year when our lovely daughter, Margaret, was born. [We] cherish her very highly. A year or two after that, our lovely daughter Ann [Paul was born]. We cherish and love her with all of our hearts.

After the two girls, we had two more boys, Robert [Pettegrew] [Paul] who was the only child [who] was not born [at] Holy Cross Hospital. He was born at grandma's 00:53:00home. The last child was [Richard Jeremy] "Jerry" [Paul]. That makes two boys, two girls and then two boys -- all of whom are strong in the faith and who all have married in the temple. They have families of their own now. We have twenty-nine grandchildren.

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GP:At the time of the birth of our youngest son, "Jerry," mother's [my wife] health began to fail. She had a heart condition develop while she was carrying "Jerry." This became extremely serious and our [doctor] felt this child should 00:54:00be brought early [because] her heart would probably fail if she went the distance. He was brought three weeks early with a great struggle. It was at this time that another great spiritual manifestation was given [to] me concerning her and restoring her health. At this time, her heart had failed, but it was still beating at such a rate that was far beyond reasonable limits. The [doctor] said 00:55:00she could not live. My brother [Leslie Joshua Paul], who was the chief [doctor] on the case, told me I [should] be ready to assume the responsibilities of this family alone because her life could not continue for very long. I was very upset and somewhat confused, disbelieving that my sweetheart and life's companion was [going] to be taken. After leaving the hospital and not knowing where to go, I 00:56:00met a friend of mine, John Stringham, who I invited to return with me to the hospital to administer to his childhood friend, my wife. Everyone was saying it was just a matter of hours before she would be gone.

The baby had been born and was doing very well, but [his] mother lay stricken. My brother, Dr. Paul, said as he was leaving the hospital he would fill out all of the necessary papers so he wouldn't have to return. My friend and I returned 00:57:00to the hospital. I had John Stringham speak the blessing because I was so distraught and filled with emotion that I knew I couldn't perform this sacred ordinance and he did. I remember in the blessing he promised her that she would live, that she would be restored and that her heart would be made well, and she would rear her family. This was what I wanted to hear. I don't know if she could hear or fully understand all of the blessings that were spoken because she was heavily medicated. Shortly after this administration she was able to lie down. 00:58:00[It was] much to her surprise because, for weeks, she had not been able to even go to bed. She had to remain seated upright in a chair because her heart condition was so serious. If she had tried to lie down, she surely would have died. She was so tired. After the administration she was able to lean down on her elbow and then a little more and a little more until at last she was lying down. It felt so good to her that she went to sleep immediately. When I took my 00:59:00friend to where he wanted to go and returned to the hospital, her pulse rate was down to almost normal and she was sleeping. I [will] never forget the feeling of exhilaration realizing the power and the strength of the Lord, the goodness of the Lord in His love manifested to those who serve Him in righteousness. From that time, she has lived while all of the doctors declared that she should have died.

There are interesting [facts] with each of the children. [When] "Jerry" was a 01:00:00young man in high school and doing very well, he became enamored with the [United States] Air Corps. He was a member of the Civil Air Patrol and they were very active in recruiting young boys for [United States] Air Force service. He wanted in. He was so elated because he was selected as an exchange student to go to Peru.

One night as we finished our ward teaching, we were coming up the street and he was telling me how bright the future seemed. Everything he seemed to want was 01:01:00now coming towards him. A manifestation was given me and I realized if he pursued this course it would mean that his life would be lost. In a vision I saw him receive the finest training available. He was commissioned in the Air Corps and sent to a far and distant land. [I saw him] flying as a fighter pilot in one of the finest machines that could be built when he was struck by enemy ground fire. He went into a long glide and was trying to get back to friendly 01:02:00territory, [but] went down in enemy territory. He was not killed in the crash, but I saw he was captured and tortured until finally he died. He was buried in an unmarked grave in a far distant and hostile land. This affected me tremendously. I said in spirit, "Oh no, I don't want that!" To my surprise something touched him and startled him a bit. Soon after, he [became] sick [with 01:03:00a] serious health condition, hepatitis, and almost [lost] his life. He was not chosen for the [United States] Air Corps. [The] event was a great trial of faith for me, as I had been forewarned and I clearly saw the events that led up to this astonishing experience.

I knew he would never enter the [United States] Air Corps and I knew his life would be preserved. I knew that he would be able to go [on with] life and achieve happiness and success [that] he so much desired. With this knowledge, I 01:04:00saw him sink lower and lower in health until his blood index went off of the charts. The chief of staff at the hospital and five of his assistants took me aside and said, "Why don't you give up? This boy cannot live. He will be in a wheelchair the rest of his life if he does live. You will have to do everything 01:05:00for him. Is this what you want? Thirty percent of normal is all you could ever expect or hope [for]." I said, "No, this is not what I want! I want the boy well." They said, "This isn't possible." I bore my testimony to them at the time and said, "You tell me the great Creator that made man and all things pertaining to him and breathed breath into him, gave him health and strength that He and those associated with Him can't fix this boy, you say? I declare to you that it is not a question of their ability to do so, the only question is can we be 01:06:00heard? If we are heard, will they do something about it?" They saw that the case against me was hopeless so they left. After I had placed my full confidence and trust in the Lord, a manifestation was given me: for I saw the gates of death open and this boy was about to enter when I fell upon him. I clasped him in my arms and inwardly cried to the Lord saying, "If this boy enters these gates, I go with him." I meant it and I would have done so. Almost immediately there 01:07:00stood at my side a person I never saw, but knew he was there. A person who had been dispatched from beyond the veil to dispose of this, I presume, troublesome thing to them. I had made a great effort spiritually to reach the powers of Heaven in his behalf. He stood at my side and I don't know what he did, but it was very effective.

[END OF TAPE ONE -- SIDE TWO]

GP:There was a spotlight of truth on my life. There was nothing about me or my 01:08:00life that he could not see or did not know. This was an astonishing thing and I presume it is somewhat similar to the final judgment where everyone will stand before the bar of God to be judged by their deeds in the flesh. Anyone that says he is without blemish or guilt is mistaken. I was aware of many things in my life that I would like to change.

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GP:During this time I was aware that I could see, slightly, through the veil of this life into the spirit world. This person that stood at my side returned almost immediately to the quorum from which he had been dispatched. It was a 01:09:00High Council just as the High Councils of our Priesthood organizations are organized on earth. I was able to see through the veil of mortality into the realm of the spirit that listened to their conversation. I heard him report, I heard the discussion about me and about the circumstance for which I had been pleading. I heard the questions and replies of many of the brethren in this council. I saw the presiding officer call for a vote and heard him ask for a vote of the council as to what would be done with this case. To my astonishment 01:10:00and great relief, the vote was in the affirmative. It was to grant unto me the use of the powers of heaven. To seal a blessing upon this boy that would restore his life, continue it and give him health and strength.

Almost immediately this person was at my side again and I will never forget the words that came into my mind as he said, "Bless the boy and as you speak so shall it be." This great instruction was a surprise to me [because] I thought this personage was going to do all that had to be done in behalf of "Jerry", but 01:11:00he turned it entirely to me. I knew that this was proper and in order [because] the brethren beyond the veil have respect and honor for the Priesthood this side of the veil. He had given me permission to use the powers of heaven to seal a blessing upon the boy to restore him to health. It was several hours before someone came to the hospital. I was alone and it was my oldest son, George, [who] came. Immediately I said: we must administer to "Jerry," which we did. I 01:12:00pronounced the blessing upon the boy. I have never felt such a freedom of expression or the power to speak the language. The ideas that flowed into my mind were sublime and eternal in their nature. The blessing was spoken and sealed upon his head.

An astonishing thing occurred; nothing happened. He didn't get well. I thought the result would be immediate. How quick the Lord is to test our sincerity and the degree of our faith. It went [on] for several days and I had to get hold of 01:13:00myself. I began to wonder: did I or didn't I experience that which I thought I did? [It] certainly was a test of faith. After this, I arrived at such a degree of faith again that I felt alright about it; that is when I noticed the small marks that looked like paprika on "Jerry's" legs between his knees and his hips that were showing. I called the doctor that was on duty at the time and he was delighted. He said. "It is coming. He is being restored!" His blood index which 01:14:00had gone below the bottom of the page now began to climb. When it climbed to sixty percent of normal, the [doctor] said, "You might as well take the boy home as he is twice as good now as we ever expected."

As I was making arrangements to move him home, he got the mumps. This was on top of all that he had had. If I had not known he was in room such and such, I would never have known him. He head was so swollen. It looked like a watermelon stuck on his shoulders. I have learned that viruses are not compatible. The body can 01:15:00handle the mumps virus, but can't handle the difficult ones like meningitis, hepatitis and poliomyelitis. This mumps virus went through his system and cleaned it out. His blood index rose to above ninety-nine percent. He was finally pronounced well. I went into the doctor's office and he said, "This is a miracle! I don't know what we did, but whatever it was, it was the right thing. 01:16:00The boy is well. Take him home." I was so astonished at him taking the credit for the Lord's work that I said nothing. With a grateful heart [I] returned home with the boy. He now lives and has the blessings of the Priesthood, has a family and is living in Idaho.

I would like the others of my family to know that my life is at their disposal. There is nothing that I have that I would not give them, even my life, if necessary for their well being and happiness. I wish them the success in life 01:17:00that we all hope to achieve. I have received the blessing from the hand of the apostle of the Lord declaring that if my influence was right and proper with my family that when the time came, and it really mattered, and the roll was called they all would be there. This I consider the greatest blessing I could ask. Eternal lives in the Celestial Kingdom with all of those of my family that I love and cherish -- my family.

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FH:Tell [about] the different [positions] you have [held] with the church.

GP:I would be very happy to. As a young man, I was president of our Elders 01:18:00Quorum. There were nearly 100 of [these] fine young men, a full quorum. It was a wonderful experience to be the leader of this group. They were real work horses. I enjoy working with the elders. They were young, enthusiastic and vigorous. We had a delightful quorum. A quorum is ninety-six. Seventy-five percent of them were re-elected. It was a delightful experience.

From there, I was called to the bishopric by Brother Gunderson who had been named bishop. [He] called me out of the presidency of this Elders Quorum to be 01:19:00his counselor. I served there for about eight years and this was in Winder Ward. Our job, commissioned by Henry [D.] Moyle who was the president of Cottonwood Stake, was to get the Winder Ward out of debt. It was a real job because it was during the depths of The Great Depression. This was finally accomplished. Upon release, I was selected [as] the high counselor in the Cottonwood Stake, also in the Big Cottonwood Stake and then in Mill Creek Stake. I served on the High Council of three of the great Stakes of Zion. I was ordained a bishop. I was the first bishop of the Mill Creek Seventh Ward.

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GP:Prior to being ordained bishop, I served as the stake missionary for two years. Steve Cornwall was the mission president. I have the certificate of release. That was quite a nice experience. This has been the extent of my missionary call. After that, I was ordained a bishop presiding over the Mill Creek Seventh Ward.

At [one] stake conference, Brother [Marion G.] Romney was present. He took me to one side during the meetings and asked if I would [accept a] call to be a patriarch in the church. This was an astonishing thing to me. Of course, I 01:21:00expressed my desire to do whatever the brethren would like me to do. At the next session of conference my name was proposed to be ordained as a patriarch. To my surprise, everybody voted for it. I was sustained and, shortly after, I was ordained by Brother Romney [as] a patriarch in the church. This is perhaps the crowning experience of my church activity. I had never [thought] such an experience would come into my life. The patriarch has his life and being in 01:22:00areas of prophecy and revelation. This [is] by the goodness and blessing of the Lord, for a patriarch has no counselors. His association is between him and the Lord. This [is a] great and wonderful call to be [a] servant of the Lord. I have served for about nine years and have sealed approximately 800 blessings upon the heads of the Lord's people.

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FH:[At] the request of your good wife, I would like to respond and tell the impressions I felt about this at the time you were called to be patriarch.

GP:Were you present at that conference meeting?

FH:I was present and I would like to tell you it wasn't any surprise to me because I knew of the power of your faith and your wonderful spirit as you had been my bishop. I knew that here was one of the great men of the Lord.

GP:You are very kind.

FH:There was a tremendous and wonderful spirit when you were given this great call. The power of the Lord just thrilled me to know that you were given this call. I knew it was right. I knew the Lord had made a wise choice. I was sure it 01:24:00was the Lord doing it. There was not any question about it. It was a beautiful experience.

GP:Thank you. You speak of the spirit of the Lord in this matter. I am reminded of the events that followed this ordination. I continued to serve as the bishop of the ward for several months before being released. During this time, the weight of responsibility of this new call was weighing heavily on me. I 01:25:00hesitated to venture and knew my own inadequacy and shortcomings. I felt I needed the Lord so much. I have always loved the hymn I Need Thee Every Hour. I would like all of my children to read and sing [it] and to know, as they do so, [that] this was their father's favorite hymn.

In my weakness [and] not daring to venture into this new call, I was constantly 01:26:00seeking the Lord, for the strength of His Holy Spirit and the sustaining power of it to guide me in my life, my thinking, my behavior that I might be worthy to receive His blessings. That I might be acceptable in His sight in every way. [That] I might overcome my own frailties and shortcomings. [That] I might be strong in spirit, worthy to hear, sense and feel the promptings of His Holy Spirit. I felt and knew these things I needed and kept me from attempting [to] 01:27:00speak a patriarchal blessing in the name of the Lord. This continued for several months, even though there were many [who] had called for appointments. I hesitated to venture, feeling that I was so insecure, so inadequate and so un-prepared and constantly seeking the Lord as I did for the strength He alone can give.

One night, as I was pouring out my heart and soul unto Him that I might have the strength of His spirit upon me, there came [to] me a quiet, calm and assuring 01:28:00confidence that I was to go ahead. Brother Cutler was also a patriarch in the stake [and] was soon to be called to another area of activity. I was to be prepared to assume the full responsibility and weight of this calling of this great Stake of Zion. Brother Cutler [who] had been so able and so long in his calling, was soon to be taken into a new area of activity, to leave this life, and now it would be my responsibility to fill his shoes. One of the reasons I had not ventured was [that] I knew his strength and ability and I felt I would 01:29:00be almost an imposter to attempt to do likewise in his shadow. But now I knew that he was soon to go and I must be ready. In this revelation, I was surprised and alarmed and pleaded fervently with the Lord to strengthen me, when to my great relief and wonder the mantel of the call was placed upon my shoulders as I knelt in prayer. It felt like someone had placed a coat or cloak upon me, for I felt it as if it were real. This assurance that came to me through the operation 01:30:00of His Holy Spirit gave me the comfort and strength that I needed to venture in this new and holy calling. Two or three weeks later, continually seeking the Lord for the sustaining power and strength of His Holy Spirit, I ventured for the first time to give a patriarchal blessing and sign it in the name of the Lord.

FH:The blessings you have given, that I know about, are magnificent blessings and surely the Lord is with you in them. Two of my children have been privileged 01:31:00to have you give them your patriarchal blessings.

GP:Yes, I know.

FH:Please leave counsel and advice to the generations that are coming up and leave your testimony with them.

GP:It hardly seems possible that I am at the point where I might be regarded as a senior citizen. This is an astonishing thing to me because I am still young at heart. I guess the facts are that this is the case.

I would first like to speak to my family. The counsel that I might have would be 01:32:00to keep the faith. Always remember the faith of your fathers, grandfathers and great-grandfathers for you are the recipients of an enormous heritage of Priesthood background. It would be a tragedy of the highest order if any one of my children were to lose the faith. I would counsel them to be sincere in their prayers as they seek the Lord for [this] is one of the keys for power in spirit. They might seek Him in honesty and earnestly in great and mighty prayer. I can 01:33:00assure each one of them that the Lord, who knows in secret, will hear and grant unto each one his heart's desire in righteousness.

Another counsel that I feel is important would be to cherish the flag of the United States [of America] and the freedoms we enjoy, the God given freedoms of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, the Bill of Rights and the privileges that are contained in this inspired document, the Constitution, to 01:34:00stand by America and defend her rights as you would the church. Defend the Priesthood rights and the church rights [as well] as the nation. Guard your health, live the laws of health and strength, physically, keeping yourselves clean and free of the sins and evils of this world. I promise you in His name that if you do seek the Lord honestly and earnestly, you shall find Him and shall not only have happiness in this life, but have the assurance and the promise of eternal life in the life to come, for these blessings have been sealed authoritatively upon you and they are within your power.

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GP:I would like to leave my testimony concerning the church and the Priesthood. As I mentioned earlier, there has never been a time when I doubted the divinity of the origin of the church. I am grateful for this. I am thankful for the blessings the Lord has endowed upon me, that of a simple uncomplicated faith. I know the church is divine in its origin. I know that the Prophet Joseph Smith was an instrument in his hands in the establishment of his purposes on the 01:36:00earth. Succeeding Joseph Smith, each prophet has held the keys of Priesthood to the present time [and] David O. McKay, in his advanced years that great and wonderful man, holds the keys of Priesthood. It is true that he is the Prophet of God. This is the church of Jesus Christ. It isn't man's church. There is no man on earth who can control the operation of the Priesthood nor guide its destiny. This is the Church of Jesus Christ. It is led by Him. He is mindful of us and will continue to bless us.

These things are true and I want each of my children and grandchildren to know 01:37:00that their grandfather has a definite [and] positive knowledge that the church is divine. It is true and that it is correct and carries inherently with it the power [of] God into salvation. While it does not yet appear what we shall be, yet we know that through obedience to the will of the Lord as we make the truths of the gospel our lives. To live its ordinances and its truths and take them and His name upon us and live obediently to His will. We know that we shall aspire to the point where we shall be like Him for we shall pass through the 01:38:00resurrection to the eternal life in the Celestial Kingdom of God. This is my hope, my aim and my greatest desire to have for myself and my family the things that are of the most lasting worth and greatest benefit. This is the area where they are found, within the gospel of our Lord and Savior, the Messiah, the Son of God. I leave you this testimony with a sincere heart knowing full well the responsibility of this testimony and do it in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Amen.

[END OF TAPE TWO -- SIDE ONE]